Bedside Chat 9: with Verona van de Leur

Full transcript of Bedside Chat 9: with Verona van de Leur on The Dr. Susan Block Show:

Need to talk with someone about something you can't talk about with anyone else? You can talk to us. I'm Dr. Susan Block, your mistress of the airwaves, but my day job is director of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the Erotic Arts and Sciences, specializing in sex therapy over the phone.

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Brothers and sisters, lovers and sinners, artists and exhibitionists,

lawyers and connoisseurs, all you children of sex, and we are

all children of sex with a capital X. Can I get an amen?

Can I get an a women? It's my ninth bedside chat of

the Corona Apocalypse. Broadcasting live from the Little Love Church of the Bonobo Way in the village of Bonoboville,

doing another bedside chat inspired by FDR's fireside chats. And if you're tuned in live,

it's still masturbation month. It's Memorial Day.

Oh, yes. Memorial Day weekend. But still, how to conjoin such

odd bedfellows? Well, there are ways.

Yes, indeed. Manhandle those hot dogs, boys. Uh-huh. Lots of

mail, on a tip. And mash those potatoes, ladies. Mm-hmm.

Memorial Day heats up with the sizzling smell of fresh

barbecue. Mm-hmm. Of course, Memorial Day

is also a requiem for the dead,

the people who have been barbecued in America's perma wars.

The American dead, that is. The other dead can get their own holiday, right? Uh-huh. Memorial Day is for America's

dead soldiers. We are the masturbation nation serving the multi-nation corporations.

And so, on this solemn sunny holiday weekend,

we salute our troops who have given the ultimate gift their precious lives

for the corporation we call our nation.

Risking their necks in the military jobs lottery.

Join up and spin the roulette wheel to see if you wind up with veterans' benefits

or with your head blown off. We do not salute these perma wars. They fight in other nations

whose citizens also masturbate as we all enjoy manhandling our hot dogs.

Mm-hmm. Which I can't eat with my mask on, but you know, I can mash my potatoes

maybe later. Ah, yeah. But doing that, all of that

is part of what it means to be human, I think. And accepting it

in ourselves and in others is part of what it means to be

humane. Yeah. Brothers and sisters, lovers and sinners of all

masturbation nations around the world. Whether your particular nation condemns masturbation

as an evil sin or just calls it you know pathetic

sex addiction we all do it. At least sometimes.

Or several times a day. We are one world in wanking. Can I get an amen?

Can I get an A women? A women. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shoot that gun between your legs. Mm-hmm. Follow the bonobo way.

Hey. So, which way are we going

in our current war against coronavirus? Well,

lockdowns are loosening up. Yeah. Freedom across America. Woo-hoo!

As the death count rises. Woo-hoo! No.

We shouldn't say woo-hoo. We don't want to be anti-Chinese. But yeah, it is rising. It is almost 100,000

at this point in America. Yeah, number one. We're number one. Thanks

in part to the Trump's mishandling of

everything. And so, he's getting a good spanking

while he's under gag order with a gallon of bleach. It's what he

says, you know, works. The bleach, right? Uh, yeah.

So, yeah, I myself am wearing a mask, obviously. I'm patriotic tonight for America.

But yeah, I like masks. You know, maybe it's my theater background. Maybe it's my fear of getting coronavirus.

But I'm into it. But much of America is getting back

to normal. Normal. Which means in America.

Mass shootings. Well, there's no school shootings. Mainly because there's no school.

But some incel with an AR-15

went and shot up some folks in Glendale. No, not our Glendale. Glendale, Arizona.

You know, which is close enough. A place called Westgate Entertainment Center. And yeah.

Oh, if you don't know, incels are involuntary celibates. Incel, get it?

And, you know, they blame their celibacy. Mostly on women.

Also on guys who get women. And, uh, in this case, the case of the Westgate guy,

um, couples. He actually was targeting couples. And

honestly, I feel that a lot of shooters and in the

Corona apocalypse, spitters are actually incels. They don't identify as incels.

But, um, you could say they don't have great sex lives and they tend to take it out on others.

And, yes, they are inspired by the blamer in chief

who blames everybody for anything in his life. And so, yeah, they're inspired by him to blame

women. And couples. And whoever happens to be in their path, actually guys get killed almost as much

or just as much. Because these guys are, you know, they're not aiming that well, let's just say. Oh,

man. The incels, you know, like I said, I think, I think most people that shoot up

their neighborhood are kind of messed up sexually. I think you could drill down and find out how. But now these people,

some of them, are saying, yes, I'm an incel. Proudly. Yeah.

Like it's a movement. Or a cult. And in a way it is. And that's why

I guess Canada has designated incel violence as a terrorist act. You know,

which is kind of interesting. And they did it in a really awful case. A 17-year-old, a teenager

killed a woman, a sex worker in an

erotic massage parlor with a machete. So I'm all for gun control, I am, but I have to admit

you know the last guy that did this in Canada, the last guy who declared himself an incel did it with a car,

with a van. Ran over 10 people. Ah. So

if this is what it means to get back to normal, I want to be

abnormal. Please. I don't know if it's my decision though. But I will say,

you know, of course these guys are terrorists. But I don't think calling them terrorists

is going to deter incel violence, really. In fact, I can just imagine, I should look it up,

that they are just encouraged. Yeah, and almost masturbating,

you know, if not literally at least in their mind, to the idea, oh, we're called terrorists now, it's like

some sort of badge of honor for these douche bags. And they are douche bags. Of course, they're killers.

The ones that are killers. There are a lot in the cult that aren't so bad. They're just struggling.

But they could go bad just like in any cult. You know? And calling them terrorists

won't reduce incel crime. I think the only answer

is following the bonobo way. And I'm not just saying that to sell books, although, yeah, you should buy my book.

Okay, here it is. Right here. The bonobo way. But what I mean is

honoring peace through pleasure and not the American way

of war for profit. But yeah,

you know, treating people's need for sex as legitimate

as people's need for food or let's say for pizza, you know? Sometimes you just can't survive on bread alone.

You want pizza. And sometimes you want sex. And that is

normal. And that is something that we should applaud and

help people with. And that means honoring sex and

sex work. You hear that? Honoring sex work. That's right.

And that doesn't mean just having sex with sex workers.

That means honoring sex work. Can I get an amen? Amen!

Can I get an A-women? A-women. Yes, indeed. Brothers and sisters.

Huh. You know, we need a systemic change. Not just calling

these in-cells morons, which they are, but a systemic sex-positive change. And maybe

in the midst of a pandemic is a good time to make changes when we're sitting back

and thoughtful and not doing so much in the middle of a plague, which is why I am

rereading Albert Camus the plague about a town

suffering as the world suffers now from a mysterious infectious disease

that kills a lot of them and drives all of them

mad. It's kind of scary. I mean, but we're living in it, so yeah.

And so we're doing these bedside chats to kind of make sense

and sensuality of this very difficult situation.

And I'm very excited about my guest. I only have one guest tonight

because she is so special. She's so important. Yes. She is a world-renowned championship

gymnast who became a porn star. And before we chat with her, let's

see her on the floor. Verona Vandeller. She needs 9.5. And Tom, she does have a difficult performance planned.

Her coach Frank Lauder said, you know, people don't expect power from this athlete because of her look.

She's very tall, but she's a very quiet and a very elegant performer. And strong. Wow. Let's hear it

for our guest. Verona Vandeller. Wowie. And here she is

on webcam. Hi. Welcome to the Dr. Susan Block show. Thank you for having me.

I'm going to take down my mask because I believe you are physically distant enough for me. Yeah, I do.

So you are such an extraordinary very special unique woman

in so many ways. And yet your story is one that I think we can all relate to actually

in so many ways. You know, about struggle about success disappointment

and persevering. It's got so many elements and you know, but your specialness

I mean, we just saw some of that on the floor but I should say that you were named

Dutch sportswoman of the year for a few years and winner of many championships gold medals, silver

and bronze medals. You were at the top of the gymnastic game. Yeah, actually I was

before Simone Bowles was here. Yeah, but especially in Europe and we have some strong competitors in Russia

and just Europe strong, but now America is very strong in the Chinese, of course, but yeah, but then it was unique and special

that somebody from Holland was just on top of the world. So, but it was just a few years and then my injury started.

So, but then you're going downhill. So you were injured. How were you injured? It was actually

with a competition. So I had maybe nine weeks in a row every week at the competition across the world. So you travel

a few days, you train a few days and then a competition for three days and I was exhausted. So in week number nine

I just fell down at the competition during the fall. So you run you do your fault and it just fell flat on my face and my ankle just

twisted and it was broken but I didn't knew at the time. I could not walk and it was my very first injury ever. So I thought

you know, it's just a bruise and a little blue. It was twice as big but I thought you know, tomorrow it will be okay and but it

was and it took me months and actually if I count it, it took me five years to really come back at my old level.

So yeah, then it's over and especially for a gymnast because you start really young and your top is between 12

and 18. Yeah, and I was already with my injury, you know, in puberty so 16, 17, 18 and then it's hard to come

back. Very hard. I mean, it's such a hard life which you write about in your book

Simply Verona, Breaking All the Rules, which is available, your life story about

your upbringing and basically you were brought up in the gym pretty much. Yeah, I want to say

not that my parents are coaches or something because we didn't have any gymnastics background or any sports background

so it was all new in the family but yes, since the age of five you're every week in the gym and since the age of nine

every day in the gym, yes. Wow, and that must have been pretty stressful for a kid. Fun but stressful.

Yes, you start of course because it's a hobby you like it, you like to jump around you have all this energy

and you learn new tricks which is awesome so then it's fun but when you do it too much or you ask for a day off because there's

something else you want to play with a friend just at home without the gym and it's not allowed then you know that people around you are pushing you

and then it's not fun anymore then you know okay I want to do something else today but I have to so okay what are you going to do? You are too young

you can try to talk from yourself like I want to do something else or you just listen to your mom and dad or coaches okay

I want to respect them and just listen do what they told you and that's what I did. You were a good girl you really did listen to them

I was a good girl but now I think I also have an own opinion which I can share and that's what I did, it's not that much

right and maybe you're making up for having been such a good girl maybe, going bad now

yeah a little bit which is one of your little mottos there but yeah

I mean you were on top of the world you were stressed and pushed and living a very unusual life but happy I

guess happy well 50-50 of course everyone has good days and bad days and

when you're doing something you love you have a good day of course and when you are winning something you make other people proud but there's also so much

stress and tension and so much pressure on your shoulders and they have high expectations from you so that makes it a

lot harder and especially as a kid or teenager okay I'm kind of curious so you said your parents

your family did not have a gymnast background right so all of this pressure do you think it was coming from

you or your parents were your parents pressuring you? well when they hear from

coaches that I was talented then you think wow you have a gifted child and they can something that nobody else can in their town

only and I mean of course it's special it's nice but they want to make it even bigger so when it's not their own town

they want to have it national or European or worldwide you know they want the fame and the success

the fame and success is like a drug it's like Hollywood mothers yeah yeah yeah just like you know with a child star

you're going to be a star I cannot sing I cannot dance I cannot act well different way of acting

but I mean it's yeah I was gifted with gymnastics and of course when it started as a passion they will say well it's your choice

you wanted to start it it's true but it was 5, 6, 7 you know and when things are changing in puberty or teenage life

and you think well the medals are not the same as my happiness in life or I want to do different things with my girlfriends

if they're going out I want to go out or something like that something small and I know something sounds stupid because you are a teenager and

why not use that gift that you are given you know for gymnastics but if you don't have the fun anymore and you only go to your hotel

room with just tears in your eyes and even with medals around your neck and it's not satisfying you but you only do it for the others

and yeah there was a point that I thought what am I doing and how long can I go on with this and it took me quite some years

just I mean it's hard you train 30, 35 hours a week and if you don't feel that spark or the passion anymore

it's quite hard to go every day and especially with the injury I mean that must have been the proverbial straw that broke

the camel's back you know you were injured and so you had to stop at least for a while and I guess then you decided to really stop

yeah so my injury came after my best year so it was the year after I was crowned you know a sportswoman of the year in Holland

and just a few months after I broke my ankle and that same year 2003 was the qualification for the Olympics

and the Olympics are my dream for years and that's the highest you know thing in gymnastics so and Holland never went to the Olympics

or maybe what is it so many years before I could even count on many years so we were the first generation to come back and I was the national champion

so they counted on me they needed my scores and that's why they didn't give me a surgery which

I needed but then that was the turning point so I had to keep on going with the injury every day again

just with some you know painkillers and medicines and all the tape and braces and just with tears in my eyes with a broken ankle I had to run

I had to jump I had to do all these tricks but it's not possible I mean what they said it's in your head you don't have anything just go through it

you know gymnastics is hard and like every elite sports can be hard you have to be tough that's what I was told every day

and then you try to believe it and I mean if your coach is saying it to bring you to the top you think well maybe it must be

right because you know he knows everything about gymnastics and the Olympics were something big and I wanted to do it not only for me

but for the team and for Holland so after a few months the qualification was in Anaheim in America

and I was selected for three out of the four operators but at the last point when I was already there at the

Worlds it took me out of the team and I was second what is it reserve and my teammates didn't make

the points for the Olympic limits so we didn't have any tickets well at least one but you know it's hard

to give away one ticket for an entire team so yeah my dream was just into a thousand pieces and

2004 was the worst I mean you have to watch on television so I didn't watch and

yeah it's really hard because then you get this argument at home with your parents well this is your

our dream too and you know if I did something to their dream and their lives and but it was

just a silly mistake I was just overworked you can say at the competition where I broke my ankle but and then I switched clubs

and a different coach I wanted to have just a different environment and also away from my family so I went to the other side of the country and

I had a ghost a host family sorry and I just wanted something different but then I became a little bit

more rebellious teenager and because I was injured I didn't have to go to the gym like 30 hours maybe it was 20 so

I did I did go out sometimes and I had a boyfriend you know so I started just a teenage life and which I loved

but then you have to make a decision again for another four years for olympics or go on with the life you just discovered

and yeah so it's in your head it's going always like

go to the direction of olympics or go to the direction I like and yeah it's difficult I tried to do it for

a couple of years for both but that's never worked so you decided to go in the direction you wanted to go and that

your body was telling you you should go I guess yeah but I didn't want to disappoint all the people around me

because I was on top of the world I was qualified in 2001 in the top three I mean that's really high

so I could yeah but I messed up in the final but anyway I just wanted to be on top again but my body was changing

I was more than 10 kilos heavier you know I was in puberty so all these things are not for your benefit so it's

yeah you have to relearn like walking again and these tricks are really hard so some tricks I could never do again

because I was too tall too heavy and not as flexible so I had to accept myself that was maybe the hardest

part the mental part just to accept my body my own you know my own me and a special farona now

and your body I mean I can't believe you would think you were too heavy but I do understand because in gymnastics

of course the lighter and younger the younger lighter athletes do better score higher

yes it's easier of course when you are a little lighter and I understand only if yeah the gymnast

now I mean they look incredible and even with their own body figure I mean everybody looks different and if you can just jump with your own figure

why not I mean you're strong enough so then I don't understand that the coaches or other people still say well less is better

I mean they still look great well you did great and you were quite tall for your age when you were young you were

tall you know you did I'm still the same height as I was as I was like 14 yeah I was

really tall very young how tall are you 170cm I don't know when inches

was that in American 170 in European well we'll find out but I know

that in the pictures of you winning your trophies often next to another girl and she looks like at least

a head shorter than you oh thank you 5-5 5-5

5-5 or 5-6 in American that's pretty average for a normal girl it's average what you said but for a gymnast

I mean if you're standing next to the Chinese that's two heads they are old enough maybe they are 12 but because that happened in the past

too but even with Americans they are one head shorter so I don't know it's in the bars

it's especially hard because you are touching the low bar you know you have to do all these stupid lines to go only through it and the Chinese

are just straight and making all these swings so sometimes I'm jealous it's interesting you say this you know I used to be

a stripper and I met a lot of other strippers that they were ballerinas and things like that when they were really really

young and then they told me as I got older as I hit puberty I just couldn't be a ballerina anymore and I'm like

why and they're like well I got too tall I got too big my butt was too big I didn't have that body you know like

you don't control how you grow you just grow that way and so I met a lot of ex ballerinas

as a stripper then you go on to belly dancing you know there's always something to move on to you know in life

but certain art forms do kind of emphasize a certain kind of body that is

usually rare and in younger women I guess exactly yeah but more women

luckily it's changing a little bit I think so I guess so but the funny thing about gymnastics I mean they start so young

and it's just I guess it's like a you're asking for abuse almost it's like the adults

have to make you come to practice and do all these things that are hard to do and not see your friends and not eat

things that kids eat and then you know they might power trip you and do even much much worse things

and I guess that goes on in all sports and ice skating and but certainly in gymnastics

and it's also for the flexibility part I mean you know Chinese documentaries but it's not only there it's in America it's in Europe

I mean we have to do oversplit I mean that's normal in gymnastics but if you tell people or show footage from something they said

well that's abuse how can you do it the children are with tears in their eyes and because they are from natural not that flexible

but yeah you have to 180 is what you need for the judges but a little bit over is better but we need to

stretch like this to get this in competition it's called over splits right it's called over splits

over splits yes interesting thank you and yeah I mean in a way all sports are kind of abusive

but but it's just gymnastics they generally start pretty young so it's a little more alarming

to us now but in any case you did through all the stress and difficulties make it to the top of the

gymnastic game and definitely um best sportswoman of Holland and then

these things happened you know you got your injury you wanted to experience normal life you could say and

then I guess you quit and your parents did not like that and they

seem kind of cold for that but I have to say maybe when your kid is taken away from you so often at such a young

age you don't develop that care perhaps or I don't know it's more difficult for a parent

whose child has become such a commodity at such a young age yeah at some point I don't blame

them for everything I mean I was unique in the situation family so they don't have any education so

I don't blame that they didn't have the knowledge or how to raise a gymnast or how to work some things out but they

I also have a sister and she also didn't get the love that she needed and I don't know it's I can see now when

I'm older that they make just normal parents mistakes and not because I was a gymnast and I think that's that's something

I struggle with that you know you can be a parent you can be loving without the sport side

you know even when I fall down from a beam you can say okay come on you get a hug and you will do better next time I know because you're my daughter

and you know you can encourage somebody as a child I mean you need some positive energy for the next time otherwise you think well

I don't know if I want to do it next time and I was in a negative spiral and I need some courage and some push kind of

but not in this negative way like for me it was if you don't win a medal next time you know it's more that I got hit by

hit and that they punished me for not doing a great job and I had to go to my room and just sit there alone

you know and now there's a child that needs some love so I think they did their some they had some mistakes over there yeah

well so that hit you pretty hard that was pretty tough to experience your parents

anger and and I guess they locked you out of the house and took some money of yours and

what happened but I all found out later yes so I had a sponsorship whenever I started as a sportswoman of the year

in Holland of course the sponsorships came with the contract and I was only 15 years old so my dad took over

which is normal I thought you know we spoke about it about the contract and he said you know you only think about gymnastics I just do all the finances and

you know I will take care of it so I trust my parents for 200% I said sure no problem when I'm old enough I will talk about it

but you know that's it but when I quit when I was around I think 22 when I asked about it then I didn't get any answers

and it was all burnt it was all gone the money was gone you know didn't get any right answers

so I had to go to the accounting and ask for it and you know I saw all the mistakes and eventually they said well if you want to have something back

your money is our money you go to the judge so that was kind of an argument already and I really thought about it and

it was not the only argument but I thought you know I have I need to find some closure so at the end I did go to a judge

so I had a lawyer for free who helped me and I won in court so good for you

how old were you when you did that 22 oh wow you know

I mean we should love our parents as much as we can but if they stop it if they prevent it

you got to fight for your own rights and you did and I knew I had to do it otherwise you have always

this question in your head or did I do something wrong or you know I just had to get this answer for myself

or winning or losing doesn't matter I was on the winning side now but even when I lose I had my answer and I could go on in life

well yeah win or lose you've got to fight for what you believe in and apparently a judge agreed with you so you won

and good for you but I guess still it was rough or maybe you didn't get the money right away

I'm not sure but I guess you went through a period of great difficulty and homelessness and how do you even do that

in Holland I thought Holland has a social safety net don't they take care of everybody well they have some organizations of course but I was kind of too

proud or I don't know how to call it that I was a former elite gymnast to ask for help because you have to explain the entire situation

and I didn't want all the gossip and newspapers to put it everywhere you know my story and I kept it to myself

not even my grandmother or other people knew it only my boyfriend and me at the time not even his mother so yeah it was a big secret

and I didn't want to get it into the world and I didn't want any help of course you can ask for it but I just wanted to overcome it myself

again like an injury and gymnastics or and if you ask for something it felt for me like

begging and yeah I don't know it didn't felt like me and I wanted to fight for it but it took two years to get out of it

so I lived on the street or actually we had a car so we slept in the car just a two-seater so it's all

So this is in Amsterdam Amsterdam or what city, what city? No just multiple cities I mean it's not one city

because you're not allowed to sleep on the street so you got a ticket if the police find out so we have to move all the time

even at night if the police is just driving by we think okay we just better go to a different parking place and sleep over there so he didn't get

any rest at night so sometimes we just slept during the day just along the highway or on the beach in summertime but the winters are the hardest part

but summers can be just like holiday even when you have no money but then you have just different environment on the beach or the sun

and you feel like freedom because that's what I didn't have in gymnastics I was always in this gym with all these walls and

rules and restrictions and pressure and so whenever I was homeless it's strange to say but I felt freedom and just

hurt myself it makes a certain kind of sense but then I read about

I guess I don't know I gotta hear this story what happened with this blackmailing of a couple

or somebody involved in a couple that put you into Dutch jail well I was on the street

everyday as you already know and I already had my lawsuit against my family so I was in a really bad place

I didn't have any money for food sometimes I was stealing in the supermarket or just get the free samples and go outside again

so I was making pictures I had a digital camera and I liked to be in nature and I was on the street always

I just watched butterflies and you know birds and I was making pictures and I saw a woman going to

another car just really sneaky you know like looking around and if nobody is seeing her but I saw her but I was

behind the bushes and she stepped in the car and one second later her clothes were off and she was sitting on top of the map and I was

with this camera I thought you know making pictures I was making pictures from everything and also from her and whenever I confronted her

with the pictures and I didn't think clear first of all so when it's happening now I will never do the same again but besides that I saw

a child seat in the backside of the car I thought about my own situation like a child and a mother

and for me it looked like she was not her husband or a boyfriend so I felt really sorry for this child

and my own family who was ripped apart and I was just stupid and thinking I showed her the pictures whenever she said do you want to have any money

I said yes this is what I need because I don't have anything to eat and I want to have money so I was quick thinking

like a thousand euros that's what I need so I blackmailed her right away and that's but she asked you first she said do you want money do you need money

yeah because she was scared she saw the pictures and her looks like she was wide again and she really thought this is like blackmail if I was hired

as an investigator investigator of her husband or something but she didn't knew the story for me and

recognized me right away and whenever I showed it and I thought yes what money yes that's what I need

but she was almost entrapped by that but go on yeah but she didn't pay me she went to the police so she stepped in the car right to the police

and I just went to the place I always went with my car so she wrote down my number plate I mean I didn't

cover myself with I was just me I didn't cover that I had a car and she could just ride away to the police with all the information

so it was not my intention to blackmail but at that point that she asked me I said yes so it took

a couple of weeks because whenever she went to the police I didn't hear anything and then they were just how do you say

it's an occupation for a couple of weeks so they have this thing under the car that they know the GPS where you are going they just

whenever I went into a store they just walk with under cover people with me whenever I looked into the because I went to the bookshop

and I was looking to nature books like National Geographic or something because I like the pictures I want to have the same pictures of wildlife

and then they just wrote down she is looking into a book that's what I all see in the documents later you know that they

observe me and yeah a couple of weeks later the sorting was coming and just middle of the night

they take us out of the car so they broke the windows from two sides and we my boyfriend and me just get into separate cars

and I didn't know if they were kidnapping me if it was police because they were all in black masks and just

proof vests so it was like a few people on my side and a few on his side so I was really scared and was screaming out loud

so we were in a neighborhood so it was maybe around 5 am nobody was awake yet but after my screaming I think

everybody was and within a couple of seconds you are in the police car it's an under cover car but a police car and then

you just go to the police station and then you don't hear anything the first couple of hours and then after a day I got my lawyer and he told

me well it's about blackmail and I thought like no I didn't know what he meant first I thought maybe my father with the lawsuit

I asked a lot of money from him so I thought you know but I didn't think about this woman because it was for me it was already like

2 or 3 months ago and it was just one moment I saw her and never saw her again so and then I thought oh wait a minute

maybe she but I never received any money so I thought is this really a case so for me I didn't know what was happening

and it was the first time in jail and then you get 90 days yeah and just wait and wait and wait so that's

the hardest part to be separated from your boyfriend because we were living for 2 years in the car you are 20% together

actually and you know we are a really strong bond together and then separated was really hard for me because you are isolated

and you cannot write you cannot call you cannot you don't have any contact so I didn't know if he was okay

and yeah what was going on so and then you just only have contact with your lawyer once in a while and that's it so

and jail is to jail like yeah it's not fun at all so you got released

yes after 72 days 72 days my lawyer got me out a little bit earlier he must have had a little good behavior there

so and then I don't know how did you go from that into

the wonderful world of porn well the world didn't knew about

me being in jail or being arrested or even homeless but my case was one year later

then I was released so I was already going back into the gymnastics world I was writing for magazines for them you know I was giving clinics

just training sessions as a coach for the girls so I had my life on track again but whenever my lawsuit came

nobody knew and at that point they knew they just broke all the contracts they didn't want to see or speak to me anymore so I was back

to zero again and then couple of weeks later there came a big contract for a webcam page

and I thought about it for me it was not the right way like no way no for me it wasn't

a chance or something to hold on to you know it was a big contract so I could start my life again I could build something from it and I was

really positive thinking like it's a webcam for me it was a good start I never thought something about playboy

or something new I was only thinking about sports so for me it was not a child who dreamed to be you know

a new model or something but whenever they resorted me I really thought about it and said well I do it you know

you know a lot of people say that porn ruins your life but you have said that porn saved your life

yes it did and I have to say I have my own rules with my boyfriend so we started our own company

right away went next to the contract so I had this platform for webcomming and we made our own personal movies for selling

yeah and we did it for eight years and it was the best time ever best time ever

I think it's also good for your sex life of course in a car it's hard I have to say

but whenever we film something and there's this red button you know recording I think

for me it's also something horny that people could watch and if you saw it you know other people see you so I think I'm an exhibitionist

and I want to show myself I was going to ask you if you think you're an exhibitionist and you came up with it yourself yes but I think most gymnasts

have this a little bit because you know you have to show yourself you do don't watch already

yes so I think when this is in me it's a little less harder to do it and I

I lost my figure and I you know as a gymnast it was hard to accept myself but whenever I quit I had so much

time to think about myself about life or other people look at you and that you have to respect yourself and be beautiful you know so I was

happy with myself and that shows all my pictures and movies and what I said it was the best time and when you do it with

your boyfriend and you sell this stuff it's so personal and so I mean when you love each other I think it's good porn

and of course you have different that's what I learned you have all the angles and all the things you have to think of it's not just having sex

you have to think what wants the viewer and you know the visitor in your room and how to present yourself or is there a story behind it

or a script or sometimes I ask my fans like what do you want to see and I have to say they always said can you do your hair on a ponytail

and wear a leotard so they are fans of gymnastics yes there are fans of gymnastics

that just want to go the next step see the gymnast they want to think like gymnasts are over 18 most

of the time now and they they just visualize while is she having sex she has a boyfriend how is it going

well this is how it can be so yeah I'm part of this and I did some interviews

when I was a gymnast and I didn't like it that there are people watching with this porn vision to gymnast because I was under age

and that's still what I want to say you know we are gymnasts we are doing our sports and we are not here for the porn

but whenever we are old enough and we have our social media channels and we are showing our ass in lingerie or something

then it's our own choice and they can watch because people are almost asking for the likes so that's a different part so they the fans have to know

what they can and what they can't and whenever I'm selling the porn I want you to watch of course

so a lot of porn shows off sexual athletics sexual gymnastics or tries to

but you are the real thing I mean people are still asking were you really a gymnast

or are you pretending I said well just go to YouTube I know it's a very long time right now because it's maybe 20 years ago already

but just watch yes well speaking of watching I wanted to show one more

little piece of you actually it reminds me so much of bonobos because do you know about bonobos

well I did some research so a little bit yes and they are very sexual and very gymnastic

because of course their feet are like hands so they are constantly swinging from the trees as well

as with each other and I just wanted to show this piece of you that I found on YouTube

swinging on the parallel bars like the bonobo ah exhausting

beautiful no you don't look happy there but you must have been exhausted a little smile

but you honestly look happier on your porn stuff which we are going to show a little piece of in a little while but I mean

I don't know you just were very focused or not happy or stressed

but I mean it's so beautiful to watch you just swinging like a bonobo I'm still proud

when I was a gymnast I didn't watch my routines which I just did on the competition I wasn't embarrassed or something

I just didn't want to see it because you always see a mistake or things that can be better but now I'm proud if I look at it

you're on worse critic yeah you should be proud and there should be more of it on YouTube there's a few things

so well what's your favorite position sexually well I like doggy style

69 I like blowjab so yes you seem to of course you don't have to be a gymnast for that but I mean is there a gymnastic

position that you can do just my leg up you know just flexible up just in a split

that's a good position and the split and there's a split wow

well yeah I mean gymnastics is just so beautiful you know I've always loved it it's not a game

I mean it is a game it's competitive and very competitive but it's not like where you have the

competitors like facing off against each other like if they're playing tennis or some other sport with a ball

and it is it's kind of like ballet or dance but so much more incredible

like gravity defying I guess you could say it definitely it's more art

yeah it's just a show every piece is a show because you cannot compare it to each other if people watch Simone Valls or other American gymnasts

I mean they're all good but nobody can tell which is better because every trick has different points and

it's already hard to get a deduction and then you know at the end you have an A score and a B score and a D score and too many scores

so I think the viewers don't get it anymore there's no perfect and like Nadia Comenici or

it's like 16 it's very high and a 12 is like so it doesn't make sense anymore

no not really it's just what you like almost yeah but if you look at it unless somebody falls down but otherwise it's really what you like

so we have a few messages coming in from our Facebook feed including from one of our regular

Bonobo members who is in here because we're physical distancing Jux Lee

one of our favorite photographers and actually who created my little finger floggers there

so Jux first of all he says parents are just the best meaning he's being sarcastic

sarcastic and yeah I mean parents can be problematic even if you're not

a prodigy and then he says are you a flexubitionist what

well it's like a flexible exhibitionist a flexubitionist showing off your flexibility well depending

on my mood maybe because even on the beach some days I just want to be just me just laying

and enjoying from the sun and the other time I think well doing cartwheels doing splits and everybody's watching just on the new beach and then

sometimes yeah I like to show off and the other times I just want to be in private and so depending

on my mood well good it's good to be balanced you know but you certainly do have that flexubitionist side

I think Jux is a little bit right about that and let's show one of your videos that we found

on Pornhub so we can't have Facebook look at this one but we're going to look at this one and enjoy it

because it's absolutely beautiful going back camel toe

wow gorgeous whoa can we have some applause wow that

that's just amazing it's just combines the gymnastics and the porn and these positions

with your beautiful face looking I mean I don't know how you were feeling but you look sincerely happy

thank you well that's how I feel so hopefully I just shine from within you seem to you really do

and I guess you know in a way your face is an open book because in all the gymnastic film that we see

you look very focused and concentrated but you have to yes yes and you look that way

so do you feel that that gymnastics

and porn gymnastics and sex sexual gymnastics I mean is it related do you feel like you're a better

porn performer because of your training maybe you were overtrained but still you can do all these things

I think that the training is helping me of course because you can do all the positions and you have to have some

condition I mean you can be out of breath after I don't know how long some average is but I can

hold on for quite a while so yeah I think sports is always good for your health and just in general but for sex is even better

and yeah with the positions and the things you can do and even the craziest things if you see something on the street or you know some

buildings or artwork or benches you can do the craziest stuff yeah and you know people I think when

they first hear oh from gymnast to porn star they think wow she was so wholesome and now she's so naughty but

the Greeks who really got gymnastics going in a lot of ways and the Phoenicians they did gymnastics in the nude

yeah I mean why not and we are not wearing much I mean tight leotards and if I look now back to

gymnastics I still think if they don't want to be that sport so sexual why not wear long leggings or why not

you know a little bit loose or it's actually so sexual I mean you open your legs and there's

only a little piece of fabric in between then there is I mean I was always scared that something was showing or you know that

was something what was in my mind when I was doing a competition and I think that's also not good because we also train in a short or in a

leggings or so if they want to change some things about it or refuse to gymnastics yeah I think

that can be one thing but if you look to the college gymnastics in America some girls do all the sexy moves and you know

all the dances and showing their butt and they want to have the attention so it's a little bit of both some are doing it for the attention and

some just want to hide it and want to do the performance and only the sport so yeah I mean I don't know if you have to ask me maybe

we have to go to the FIG or the yeah other people but I think the fans are still loving it so

yes absolutely and I mean I think yeah I mean as long as people are over 18 now that are

involved I like that you wear sexy outfits I can't stand it that all the basketball players wear these baggy shorts now

I used to like when they wore tight little shorts you know I like when the guys were tight but you know I'm a sex maniac so

yeah so when I was older I wanted also the sexy leos and all the sheer and the shiny stones

and yeah you want to be sexy then if you're older yes yeah so what would you say

is something that you've learned about yourself from doing porn

well actually when I was just turning from gymnast to a normal person or doing porn I just

do what I love to do and not what other people expect me to do even in the porn world people can say well do this do this

or this shot or this scene with this man or no I did only what I wanted to do and that's of course I had a good relationship with my boyfriend

and we have our own rules but if something is just not working that day we just do it another day I mean that's good we have our own company so

I don't feel any pressure and what I learned is just listen to yourself or in our voice or something I had to do it much earlier

years earlier and then maybe I was even a better gymnast or didn't have an injury because I would say I'm tired I cannot go to this competition

but I was just always listening to others or please others and I'm also pleasing others but in a different way and now I like it I mean

if sometimes I ask my friends what do you want to see what do you like do you have a special fetish something you didn't see from me yet and if they

say something like the bondage or golden showers I think well that's not something I usually do but you know it's something new I want to try it why

not and then you know we have some totally different movie and that's what I like I like to explore and do

things I sometimes never did before or what have you done for porn that you've never done before

that you didn't do before well what I already said like the bondage and the exam and the golden showers and the public things were

not my thing as a gymnast I mean people recognize you so I thought you know that's not a good thing to do but now I mean

I just try all these things and if I'm in on the beach and people watch me and I know this person

is watching me because I think he thinks I'm sexier I'm already doing things I just keep on going I mean why not just enjoy yes

now going into another level when you were very depressed

you came close to suicide you almost threw yourself in front of a train and I guess you know something

stopped you and you didn't thank God and goddess for that but what do you have to say to people now I mean

who feel depressed a lot of people are depressed these days with the corona virus with everything that's going on

and do you have any tips or advice well I kept it all to myself

so my own story my own problems if I tried to talk to my mom or other people in family I just said well I'm not happy or

things are not moving along as I want to and you just get an answer like keep on going sport is hard you know just the normal random answers

but there was nobody who would really listen to me and I didn't search for anyone at the time so I think now

I search for somebody and just you know empty your heart and just that's already lesson number one

for me that you know talk about your feelings because I was never allowed to express anything even with gymnastics you

don't express that you're nervous that you are have rivals you know then not to the judges something

just a fake smell and so I had to hide it for years so that was already opening for me like

talking to somebody and he knows about my problems and maybe could help me and sometimes it's just your mind has to do something else than just

thinking about the negative things so for me my camera was a good option just going to the nature and

just be in that moment just surrounded by nothing or just birds and flowers and you know it's peaceful and

find a hobby or find something you like and the time will fly I mean it was dark whenever I saw on my screen

from the camera like okay it's really too dark to go on now and I have to go home but and just with my boyfriend I could talk for hours

and he had great advice and just whenever Is this the same boyfriend you keep talking about? Yes! Yes!

How long have you been boyfriend? How long? 13 years. I was thinking the same thing the same boyfriend

13 years. I mean he was really a good person in my life when everything was turning bad because

whenever I was thinking even with gymnastics or parents and he would ask me questions like how do you do now do you think you did something

wrong do you think you know this other person did something wrong and even with writing my book I had to relive all these things like

the same situation again like what did I do wrong or could I do something else and maybe it turned out better and

just learn about yourself and that's why I know I made some mistakes or I had to open my mouth earlier or I had to

show emotions or I had to share things and even in a conversation you can how do you say

even with a coach I mean if you talk back and forth you can be a better gymnast or a better athlete

or even a better daughter with your mom and dad and it's not a one-way training it's two sides so

that's what I learned it's giving and taking and it's not only giving because sometimes it makes me happy

to give but sometimes you also have to take or ask for advice or ask for help or you know even when I was living

on the street I could ask for something for money or for help or for just a roof above my head but

I was too proud or too stupid or call it something but at that point I was just naive where I wanted no help

and I thought you know I could help myself but it was actually because I went to jail and then went to my mother-in-law and then had my

own house that it saved me but otherwise the situation was the same and porn don't forget porn saved you too

yeah but that was because I wasn't the news because I wasn't Jill and all these things and otherwise they maybe didn't ask me because I don't

even know if they knew I was still alive because I wasn't in the news anymore after I quit but yeah so it's yeah life

is just going this way now for me because I had all these things in my life and if I'm proud of it

not of everything but it made me who I am today so well that's good so yeah the good and the bad mix together and you

become beautiful and you are beautiful inside and out so how's your masturbation month going yeah well good

the same as every month well everyone does masturbate it's true I saw the toy you have I have a little

different one but it's working good yeah do you have the toy nearby I know it's upstairs sorry oh what kind of toy

it's the dolmi lovans black it's almost the same as the white one oh like a Hitachi Hitachi

yeah something like this working good one good vibrator yeah so do you how much do you masturbate once a day

once a week no maybe five times a week maybe something like this just like work five

times a week yeah if I'm too tired to them I just go to sleep I mean it's together with having sex I mean the store is always nearby

and so are you in quarantine now or not so much I'm now at the moment in Belgium

and this is the worst place to be I think well not that America is good but with the lockdown we cannot sit on the bench outside

we can go to a shop but nobody wants to go to a shop because they still think it's everywhere I think

30% of the people don't have a job anymore or don't have their business we are we don't have restaurants or

other entertainment things I mean I don't need it at the time but it's just crazy we can still do cartwheels

on the street or on the beach yeah I can work out for like 20-30 minutes a day

but that's it so still not allowed it's like a 50% lockdown still so yeah I gotta say Holland is an intelligent

lockdown which means they are allowed to do a much more I mean the boards are close

I'm in Belgium and it's maybe half an hour from Holland I think in honor of Holland I'd like my Heineken where's my Heineken

yeah we're drinking now that the show is winding up oh here we go in honor of you we have Heineken

okay nice it's all for you also happens to be a good beer much better than American beers so

I don't drink or smoke or do anything oh you're still a good girl still as an athlete so yeah you don't drink or smoke or anything

wow good for you even with all this being down and out and you didn't get into no just a healthy lifestyle

I guess yeah yeah well that's great so yeah I gotta say intelligent lockdown Holland

17 million population over 5800 deaths compared to Taiwan

which has a 24 million population and only 7 deaths

I'm all for freedom I'm a total freedom lover but I gotta say that when they're locked down good

they have less deaths so anyway we love Holland where I do like one thing that one of your politicians said

that singles should get sex buddies but that's a good one yeah hopefully a human that you

only have sex with but you know if your sex buddy is a Hitachi there's no shame in that right that's also good

no it's horrible now the times I mean the one and a half meter distance and if you are single and you want to beat somebody it's impossible right now

but it's kind of good for your only fans business you know people are home with nothing to do

so they're watching lots of different things including porn yes I was starting in December with my only fans actually because one of my fans were

asking for it and I have so much content from the past 8 years so I'm putting it on my only fans so if you want to join Verona Gymnast

yes so they go to onlyfans.com slash Verona Gymnast and you're named after the Italian city

the city of Romeo and Juliet in Shakespeare's great tragedy but it's a city of romance

hmm yeah so they did a good job with picking my name yeah they did definitely

yeah some people ask me do you use your real name or stage name I said well this is my real name and they don't get it I said oh

why hide behind a fake name because I'm proud of who I am and who I was and I was a gymnast I want to show it so

I have the same issue you know we all use our real names the three of us right here and we're all

kind of involved in the sex field in some way and we're unusual most most people involved in the sex world

make up a name because they don't want people to know and everybody finds out anyway if you're any good so you know and then you gotta go we'll

on this but I'm also that and you know so I'm glad you use your real name I'm so like

inspired by the fact that you are integrating your porno life with the rest of your life

and it's an amazing life but it's also a normal life you know and that's I mean I see it as normal and some people

will still say well it's not normal well that's their choice I mean they can see me as a gymnast and some have difficulties with

how to see Verona and she was a gymnast you know for sure what is she like am I allowed to say hi to her when I see her on the

street because some people say hey Verona I know you from your career as a gymnast and they cannot say you know

what else they see but yeah what I said I'm proud of it and they can ask me anything and they can talk about it

I don't mind and I'm open about it I will not hide it so that's very refreshing and

I think it's a sign of the fact that sex work and porn is more acceptable by society

I mean you have someone like stormy Daniels in America here who had an affair with Trump and you know that might

be nothing to brag about but she she definitely became a hero in this country for standing up to him

and for telling the truth about what happened and it's a tough

situation but she got a lot of respect for it and you know she's a porn star and she's a stripper

and she's also just a great comedian and anyway there's lots of people in porn that have

multi talents and it's good and it's good to see porn stars as whole human being some of

them are pretty extraordinary like you like stormy and yet you're just like us you have the same body parts

you know you've got arms and legs and boobs and yeah it's sex is sex exactly exactly so we can relate

and we can relate to your success and to your down points in your life and to your issues with your parents

are you still not talking to them? No after the lawsuit of course it's over so that's already more than 10 years

their loss and you're still with your boyfriend and are you still doing porn? Well actually

I said I quit last December after 8 years because I had other plans and I got opportunities to work again with gymnastics

talking for a newspaper going to competitions but now with the coronavirus there are no competitions even the Olympics are going to next year

you know I was a public speaker on schools for education like the whole me too things

to prevent things and abuse but even the schools are opening right now but it's not allowed to have all these sessions with a lot of people

and so still my only sense what I'm doing yeah you know I mean that's the great thing about

porn is you don't have to go anywhere and especially with you because most of your scenes are shot by yourself or with your boyfriend

Yeah and you never know maybe I'm coming back so I don't know I mean I don't regret something

I always loved it so I can never say no because my entire life was I could not expect something

what was going to happen or what I'm going to do so So are you gonna move back to Holland or do you still

Well I moved here also last December so I wanted to stay here but now I don't know because the borders are close

and I think it's horrible the next couple of years I don't know maybe I'm going back so Well we love Holland we have a couple of good friends

there including Xavier Hollander the happy hooker have you ever heard about her she's the happy hooker

and she's amazing she's in her 70's so I hope she stays safe right now and then our good friend Willem DeRitter right Max

Willem DeRitter he's 80 years old but he used to run underground papers he

started the Paradiso with his partners and the Milky Way and Sucker magazine wasn't that in Holland

and I was hiding in Holland from the FBI actually for a couple of years so yes Max understands

your prison experience yeah it was great it was wonderful yeah we love Holland

we find that people are very open there and very open minded I guess you would say because a lot of them are a little awkward

about physical expression like nobody seems to know how to dance in Holland I don't know what is that about yes maybe they are coming from

other cultures and coming to Holland and they can dance or they can do something but the typical Dutch people can't know

but you can certainly jump and do all that gymnastic stuff just so beautifully so inspiring and your porn

is also very inspiring thank you so much for joining us and also a great book get the book on I guess

Amazon or I hate to get it on because the heart burner is hard to ship so it's only the e-book now yes yes I noticed that

so simply Verona breaking all the rules oh thank you so much

for joining us you have been just delightful thank you so much for having me

is there anything you'd like to add to tell our fans your fans viewers where can they find you on social media

Instagram Verona gymnast 2 because Verona gymnast 1 was deleted because it was too sexy can you imagine

and only fans what you already said Verona gymnast and my official page is

veronafendler.com I just got a note tell Verona to watch the Dr. Susan block show in Dutch

in Dutch oh can you say watch the Dr. Susan block show in Dutch

okay I hope you enjoyed it and watch the next time the Dr. Susan block show

because oh not english because it's great I'm a little bit in English but also in Dutch

so watch it all alright sounded good thank you so much

so beautiful alright so we hate to say goodbye but we'll see you again

sometime we hope we'll put you on the show oh yeah if you're ever in LA so

meantime good luck with your your porn as well as your gymnastic career I love that you're kind of

doing both in tandem that's great to hear alright take care thank you so much and good luck with the next shows

oh yeah thank you thank you alright let's hear it for Verona Vandiver

alright we're almost out of time Captain Max what do I got what do you think of her

I'll tell you what I got what'd you get a full bladder well she did talk about golden showers

is that something you want to share with us no I just want to run to the bathroom well

but we're almost done with the show okay you run you run to the bathroom yeah we don't

want a golden shower on the rug on the camera okay wow

that was so inspiring to see someone who's so talented and accomplished and open

about her sexuality she's a tough lady and tough and yet sweet

just really really sweet and open and someone that we can all relate to

because we all of us have problems with our parents maybe not such severe problems but we all have problems

we all suffer from stress being pushed parents are our terrorists yeah there are terrorists

right they can be they can be wonderful but they can also be

and you know my heart goes out I'm not a parent so I except I am a step parent and that's hard enough

even though I don't do anything but I do I do empathize sympathize with

with what parents have to go through but still you know you gotta recognize that your kid is a human being

gotta be human and humane and let them be who they are before we go tell them to buy books

right you gotta buy books first of all buy of course Verona Vandeler's book and also this book is very good

to read right now The Plague this is by Albert Camus I'm kind of in the middle of it

I read it as a kid but now reading it again and of course you should get our spanking art

so you know spanking is you get spanked right now safe sex kind of safe spank at a distance

and let's see oh and we have splosh and art see if you're on a diet you can't eat

you just throw your food all over your partner right and that's splosh and art featuring Sheffield and

Daniel Watts and of course the bonobo way well first I want to say sex for one by my mentor

Betty Dodson and the bonobo way so

oh god I didn't even get to eat this hot dog and it's the fourth no it's not the fourth of July it's Memorial Day

a little bit of food porn yummy see I love fresh meat

make like bonobos not baboons bonobos swing through the trees as well as with each other they are sexual

gymnasts you can learn all about them in the bonobo way so

make like bonobos make love not war make love to someone you love

even if that someone is you I love you to talk with someone about something

you can't talk about with anyone else you can talk to us I'm Dr. Susan Block your mistress of the airwaves

but my day job is director of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the erotic arts and sciences specializing in sex therapy

over the phone anytime you need to talk whether you need serious psychotherapy or a hot phone sex experience

or a combination my world renowned telephone sex therapists are just a phone call away totally private absolutely confidential

we listen talk with you advise you role play for you fantasize with you no fantasy is too taboo

and help you with anything from impotence to exhibitionism fears to desires fetishes to marriages

for more information call us at 213 291 9497 that's 213 291

9497 anytime you need to talk or listening to radio sooty one on world wide

with someone about something you can't talk about with anyone else you can talk with us I'm Dr. Susan Block

your mistress of the airwaves but my day job is director of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the erotic arts and sciences

specializing in sex therapy over the phone anytime you need to talk whether you need serious psychotherapy

or a hot phone sex experience or a combination my world renowned telephone sex therapists are just a phone call away

totally private absolutely confidential we listen talk with you advise you role play for you and fantasize

with you and no fantasy is too taboo and we help you with anything from impotence to exhibitionism

fears to desires fetishes to marriages if you've never called before don't be embarrassed

we all need help with sex at one time or another even world leaders do maybe especially world leaders do but I'm not going to tell you which ones

so when you need to ask a question or play out a fantasy or just talk with someone about something

you can't talk about with anyone else call us at 213 291 9497 anytime

you need to talk hi I'm doctor Susan block and I've just written a new book called the bonobo way inspired

by my love for the make love not war great apes you know the ones who have a lot of sex in a bonobo sutra

of positions including face to face but it's not just how bonobos have sex it's how they use sex

to prevent murder and war really they're the only great apes that have never been seen killing each other

they practice what I call peace through pleasure with the females gently dominating the very happy very sexually

satisfied males bonobos are special partly because they just are and partly because they're very very

close to us almost 99% genetically similar to us when it comes to being human even being humane

bonobos can teach us so much which brings me to us and more specifically to you is your

inner bonobo longing to swing free would you like to tap into the hot natural sex energy within you

that you would so you can better enjoy the pleasures in life and cope with the pain you know the pain and have

more orgasmic organic sustainable sex who doesn't want that greater lust greater trust and better

anger management and who couldn't use a little bit of that these days so get the book learn the bonobo way you'll be glad you did then

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highly endangered so a portion of all book sales go to bonobo conservation groups working to save the wild bonobos from extinction read

the bonobo way and learn why this could be the most important eco sexual movement of our times and improve your love life