Bedside Chat 22: Going Deep with David Steinberg & Flying High with Crystal Taylor

Full transcript of Bedside Chat 22: Going Deep with David Steinberg & Flying High with Crystal Taylor on The Dr. Susan Block Show:

Need to talk with someone about something you can't talk about with anyone else? You can talk to us. I'm Dr. Susan Block, your mistress of the airwaves. But my day job is director of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the Erotic Arts and Sciences, specializing in sex therapy over the phone.

Anytime you need to talk, whether you need serious psychotherapy or a hot phone sex experience or a combination, my world-renowned telephone sex therapists are just a phone call away. Totally private, absolutely confidential. We listen, talk with you, advise you, role-play for you, fantasize with you, no fantasy is too taboo, and help you with anything from impotence to

exhibitionism, fears to desires, fetishes to marriages. For more information call us at 213-291-9497. That's 213-291-9497 anytime you need to talk. You're listening to Radio Susie One on the World Wide Web, and now here she is, Dr. Susan Block.

Brothers and sisters, lovers and sinners, artists and

exhibitionists, lawyers and connoisseurs, all you children of sex. We are all children

of sex with a capital X. Can I get an amen? Can I get an A-women?

A-women. All right. Well, Bonobo females rule, brothers and sisters. So I want to welcome you to the little love church

of the Bonobo way in the village of Bonoboville and it's my 22nd

bedside chat of the corona apocalypse. Mask up, brothers and sisters.

It's only Bonobo, you know. Well, consider it, that is. And

fashionable. Yes. So welcome to my bedside chat. Yes, gotta wear it right. And it's inspired by FDR's fireside chats.

Here to comfort and inform and eroticize inspire you

to seize the day in a Bonobo way. And speaking of which, my newest Bonobo way talk at Domcon

2020 virtual. Woo-hoo! Love Domcon. And virtual was not bad. You know, not the same as being in person.

You know, no feeling sensations, that is. No touch, touch. But, you know, we could see each other. And yes, thank you for turning my music down.

Down, down, boy. Anyway, the Bonobo way talk is now on YouTube. So check it out, but you'll have to sign in with your birth date. I know it's a big drag.

It, you know, interrupts your stride, but you gotta do it, brothers and sisters. Because even though it contains no naked humans whatsoever,

it does contain some naked Bonobos. So, yeah. Uh, it's been thrust

into the non-consensually bounderied, age-restricted

category. Ooh, the gulag, in other words. Yes. And, uh, you know, it's not just me and the Bonobos. I mean, I, I, I am

thinking of me and the Bonobos. I noticed that they sent out an announcement to, like, everybody to say, hey, yes, the future is

censorship. Brothers and sisters. Yes, indeed. And, uh, it appears that the censorship is mainly of sex, not violence.

Violence is everywhere. Sex is also everywhere, but less and more sex negativity. Uh, it's the era of sesta fosta in which sex workers

are treated like terrorists. And, uh, and the rest of us, well, you know, we just have our sexual expression infringed upon. That's, that's it, you know. Um, at least if it's sex positive.

If our sexual expression is sex negative, like we're accusing somebody of molestation or harassment, well, yeah, you know, go right ahead. Get out there. And, yeah, I, I agree that should get out there, but what about sex positivity? No. No. Well, that is being censored more and more.

And, uh, it's funny that it's happening. It's not really funny, but it is in the pussy-grabbing era of Trump. Yeah. The toilet brush.

The pussy-grabbing toilet brush. You don't want one of these up your pussy. Uh-uh. And meanwhile, the religious right. Uh, no wonder I have a toilet brush in my hand.

The religious right is flexing their might. Their murderous might. And, uh, right now, today, if you're tuned in live, they are pushing with the toilet brush, pushing it in, forcing non-consensually to most of America,

forcing this handmade, uh, Amy Coney Barrett. Hello. Yeah. Got nothing against you, doll. You're kind of cute, actually. I would have sex with you, but I know you can't. You're a handmade. But, uh, I mean, a replacement for the late, great RBG.

One of the things they're not talking about so much is that she was one of the key judges or one of the legal people that worked on the 2000 election that threw it to Bush. You know? So, she and Kavanaugh and somebody else that's on, they got three on the Supreme Court that threw it to Bush. So, if she goes on. Anyway, it's not just that.

Who else do I have it in for today? Oh, that I gotta clean him. Him, his, oh, he's disgusting. Who am I talking to? You know who I'm talking about. Cause his tongue is right up here where the toilet brush goes. He is that ass-lickin, slimy, AG, Bill Barr, who should be disbarred.

He is acting like a personal attorney to, uh, comb over Caligula there. With apologies to Caligula, who Lassie Braun thought was a pretty cool dude, but I'm not going to get into Caligula now. The religious right is, uh, I mean, what am I saying? Bill Barr is the religious right. He's born and bred into it.

He's one of these Jews for Jesus. His father was Jewish anyway. He was never Jewish, but his father was and he converted to Catholicism Catholicism and became much more, uh, Catholic than most Catholics. And, uh, and so he's being pushed to crack down on all forms of sexual expression,

except the toilet brush, Daddy Donald, the pussy grabber. And meanwhile, porn is being painted as a public health crisis. Um, and by the way, somehow people conveniently forget that Bill Barr's dad was a, uh, very Catholic, yes, um, principle of a school, very elite private school

that hired a young man who had no experience and no degree really to teach there. And his name was Jeffrey Epstein. Ring a bell. Yeah. Under Bill Barr's watch when he disappeared. So now they're trying to resurrect these ancient obscenity laws that sexual pioneers

like Captain Max, my husband, you know, were shackled and tortured for. And I don't mean the fun consensual kind. Okay. I mean, really imprisoned so we could be free, except now that freedom is being taken away, flushed down the toilet.

Yeah. A little bit every day. Well, at least Jerry Falwell Jr. has fallen from grace and he didn't fall well. No. Jerry Falwell literally, literally fell down drunk

and hit his head on a trash can after he was forced to resign from the very hyper religious Christian Liberty University founded by his dad, Jerry Falwell Sr. who was very, very anti sex, but, you know, never was caught with his pants down and certainly not deliberately like Jerry Falwell Jr., takes a picture of himself

with his zipper undone next to a woman who is not his wife. But that's not the only way Mr. Falwell swings. The whole situation seems to revolve around cuckoldry, one of our favorite topics here at the Dr. Susan Block Institute. It is one of the most popular and common fetishes.

And usually it's great. I mean, I know it can be fraught with psychological confusion, which is why we're here for you to call. But what I'm saying is consensual cuckolding is normal and can be great and certainly is risky emotionally maybe mainly, but in other ways, you know, especially if you are the director of Liberty University.

So that's what Jerry Falwell is. The director was, or the figurehead of Liberty University and he's caught in a cuckolding relationship with his hot wife, Becky. That sounds like a porn name. I don't know. Becky, especially since she spells it with an eye. And the pool boy. I think it's at the Fountain Blues. It's a Miami hotel.

And his name is wonderful. Max, you would like this name, but Max is busy. Giancarlo Grande. Giancarlo, he's the bull. Yes. So yeah, I mean, nothing wrong with consensual cuckolding, but not when you tell your flock, most hypocritically, that sex should only be between husband and wife under the covers for

procreation purposes only. Then, you know, it's, well, yeah, I mean, basically hypocritical. I mean, let's put it this way. I think people deserve a private life and certainly some of my clients are, you know, very public people, conservative on the outside, but kinky on the inside. And I respect that and I get it. But, you know, I sometimes warn them that it could come

back to bite them in the butt. And of course that turns them on. So it doesn't stop them. Anyway, maybe Jerry and Becky will make cuckold porn. Although I think Giancarlo, you know, he might be out of their price range now, having gone from pool boy to, you know, owner of a gay swinger hostel or something like that. And now he's a celebrity.

So I'm sure, you know, you might find him on aeros.com at the high price range. I don't know. I shouldn't say that. And I don't mean it as an insult, actually. Giancarlo, don't get me wrong. I don't mean it as an insult. I think you're cute and you could, you know, command a high price. And I'm not saying you're there. I'm not accusing you of that.

Don't sue me. It's good to see fall well, fall. Yeah, especially since in 2016, Jr. there was very responsible for Trumpy Dumpty getting the evangelical vote. And that was very important to him winning, or at least not winning, but getting the electoral college so that he could move into the White House. Anyway, one trash can to another. Fall well has fallen.

It's a bit of good news. It's a little bit of other good news. But, you know, I mean, one piece of good news is that our governor here in California, Newsome, has just declared, or made it a law of some sort, that trans inmates at prisons in California can go with the sex that they identify with, the gender that they identify with, which is only right.

And, you know, before they had to go to the facility of the gender that they were born into, that they might not have or identified as at birth. I'm sure I'm getting this whole verbal description somehow offensive to somebody. And let me just say I don't mean that. But I'm happy that trans people can go to the facility that they feel comfortable in

and that that is the gender that they choose. I'm very pro-choice about a lot of things. So, you know, pro-choice that might be going away. And meanwhile, there is no justice for Breonna Taylor. And meanwhile, there is civil war just spreading around the country, you know, with the police, without the police. Mostly the police seem to be on the side of the people with

guns. And, you know, meanwhile, the corporations are taking over and the rich are getting richer and the poor are dying faster. And the COVID death count in America passes 200,000 brothers and sisters, which the Trumpist defines as virtually nobody. That's toilet brush talk. Virtually nobody. And when a reporter asks him if he'll respect the transfer of power if he loses the election

in a peaceful way, he says, get rid of the ballots. And there won't be a transfer. There'll be a continuation. Slick, aren't you? Yeah. Let that sink in, brothers and sisters. Some people are kind of in alarm about it, but it's sort of floating. It was just the news the other day. Yeah, get rid of the ballots. And there won't be a transfer. And there'll just be a

continuation, is what Comover Collegula said. This is not a Comover. This is a toilet brush. It hasn't been used on any toilets, so I can play with it. It could be a joke that Trump was making about get rid of the ballots. That's what the Republicans are saying. It was a joke. Or it could be a plan. Or it could be a warning. Or it could be just,

you know, who cares? I'll just say this because it's what I want to do. Because I'm a big baby. And I just say whatever I want. And I know that my base likes me for it. Brothers and sisters, that's why I'm wearing blue. Not just because I like the hue, although I do. But because, you know, everybody says vote, vote, vote. Well, I'm sorry. I ain't just gonna say vote.

I don't want you to vote for no third party candidate this year. I've done it. And I think some years it's okay. It's great. And I don't want you to vote for Trump. I'm sorry. If you are Trumper, I would like you to stay home and gorge on your favorite, you know, appetizers. I want you to vote blue, you know. And I know the Dems are not, well, perfect. It seems like a high

bar. I mean, the Dems are not even good. They're bad. But there's a difference between bad. In fact, sometimes bad can be good. May West said, when I'm good, I'm very good. But when I'm bad, I'm better. So, but they're not that kind of bad. They're not, they're not. And the Dems are also have their sex problems. But they all sign Cestaphosta, but they're not as bad on sex

as the Republicans ever. Sex expression is freer under Democrats. So anyways, you know, and in this case, it's a question of, yeah, I guess lesser of two evils, you know, bad isn't evil. And he doesn't look evil. He looks funny. And that's, that's the game is that he's so funny. We don't, we don't realize what's going on. So, you know, this whole make America great.

I don't want to make America greater evil. Do you? I want to make America more bonobo. I want to make America more erotic. I want to make America more compassionate, more decent, more loving, more bonobo. And I'd love to say we can do it. But honestly, I don't know if we can. There is so much viciousness and depression out there. Yeah.

But I do know that we have to try. At least I have to try. You gotta do what you gotta do. But vote blue, whatever you do. Anyways, yeah, we gotta try. I gotta try. I hope you try. And I'm glad you're here. These bedside chats are part of my attempt to make things more bonobo. I definitely am very excited to introduce our first guest. And he's a very special guy.

Uh, he's, uh, he's someone that Max has known for years, an old friend of Max's, and actually kind of an old friend of mine, too. I've known him since the early 90s. And, uh, do we have our guest ready? We do. So I will say the name. Hey, David Stiver. Welcome to Bonoboville and the Dr. Susan Block show. And, uh, so just to continue my little introduction

of David, before we get into the old back and forth, um, he's an old friend of Captain Max. And I'm not sure how long it goes back, but you, I know you wrote about love and finger magazine for the spectator back in the early 1990s. And, uh, I know that that article has, uh, has since been published in your book, uh, this thing we call sex. This thing we call sex

a radically sensible look at sex in America, right? Radically sensible because so many people are irrational, unsensible about sex, especially nowadays. But now that I'm getting my picture taken with your book, I'll take my mask down because as long as I stay, you know, my physical distance and I don't get my particles going, um, we're good. So anyways, uh, we also published one

of David's articles long ago in the early days of the internet. It was called a president and his underwear. And, uh, that was like in 1994 or five. It was, of course, President Clinton and his briefs and I don't mean his legal documents. No, uh, it was, uh, it was great. And, um, it was very long ago. We, it's 1994 or five or maybe we published it in 1996 when we first went online,

I think. But, uh, now David has edited a new book. He's very prolific. I can't go into all the different writings and editings that he has accomplished in his amazing life, but the latest is editing The Shepherd and the Nymph, the erotic letters of Marco Vossi and Eve Diana. And some of you, uh, have heard of Marco Vossi, of course. Uh, some of you have not, but Marco Vossi has been

considered, even by himself, as the Marco Polo of sex. And if you don't know who Marco Polo is, the great, uh, discoverer, explorer, uh, Italian, of course. Um, and so Marco Vossi, uh, was writing a lot in the 1960s and 70s. And this was during, of course, the sexual revolution when, when sexual revolution accompanied political revolution as opposed to being a liability.

But, uh, Marco Vossi was, uh, I guess what you might call a confessional writer, a great confessional writer, and sometimes considered the greatest of his time compared to Norman Maylor. And this book of letters between him and Eve Diana, who's also a very great erotic writer, I just want to say. I mean, sometimes I liked her parts better than his. I mean, I went back

and forth. But, uh, it's a fascinating, fascinating exploration of love and, I wouldn't say hate, but, but great like despair that it's not love, maybe, or it is. And lust, of course, incredible lust and trust and lack of trust. And, uh, and openness, of course, this is, you know, Marco Vossi. Um, but it's the 80s. This is, this is written in the 80s. So it's a little different.

And, and, uh, and jealousy, a lot of jealousy on Marco's part, uh, maybe little twinges on Eve's part, but lots on Marco's part, which is a little surprising at first. And then it all kind of slides together. And, uh, and, you know, it was the 80s, um, the mid 1980s, those, um, kind of uh, Reagan years. Yeah. When the American pendulum was already swinging to the right.

And yet a lot of people were just swinging still, um, you know, and there was, uh, there was AIDS coming into the picture, but it was a piece by piecing partly because of Reagan, because he didn't put out the information very, um, quickly. Uh, so anyway, it's, uh, it's a great, great collection, especially if you're a Marco Vossi fan, a fan of, uh, of erotica,

of any sort, personal confessionals. Um, and it's, um, it's well edited, uh, because I mean, you hardly notice the editor. Uh, it's so, it's so intimate between the two of these people, but the editor is our friend. Welcome to my bedside chat of the Corona apocalypse, David Steinberg. This is a great book. Tell us a little bit, David, about what

inspired you to put this together. I know it's been a long time, you know, developing in a way. Well, let me just say, um, I'm, I'm really excited about this book. Um, I stumbled on these letters and Diana 30 years ago, right? Marco died in 1989, um, basically of AIDS. Yeah. Um, but, um, shortly after that I was introduced to Eve and, um, got to know, we, um, met and liked

each other a lot and lo and behold, I was starting to collect an archive of all of Marco's, uh, writings when, when he died. I decided that somebody should put together, um, you know, he wrote, he wrote 13 novels, he wrote hundreds and hundreds of articles. I felt like somebody should put together, as complete a collection of his work as possible. Yeah. So I kind of, um, took on that task and I

was introduced to Eve. And when I found out that she had not only all of Marco's letters to her, but all the letters that she had written to him, um, I was quite excited. And when I started to read the letters, uh, I just thought they were extraordinary. Uh, Eve was 28, Marco was 48 at the time they met. They had an eight month, uh, very tempestuous, very, uh, sexual relationship.

Yes. Partly coming from different backgrounds. Marco was already well known at that time. So he was something of a celebrity. Eve was not well known. She was also a writer, but certainly not as well known as Marco and 20 years younger than him. Um, he was Italian. She was Jewish. Um, um, and they came together and both of them, what they shared was a profound

appreciation of sexuality and the idea of letting your sexual energy go and, and following it wherever it, it might lead you. Yeah. So that, that's what they did for eight months and both of them were, uh, devoted to writing to each other and detailing and chronicling, um, everything they did. So they would meet for a weekend and then they would write about all

the things that had happened or at one point they went away for eight days and, uh, to the Hamptons and then had this amazing time. And Marco wrote, I think a 30 page letter to Eve, just detailing all of that. And Eve responded with a long response of her own, talking about all that from her point of view. And, and both of them being, uh, brilliant

writers in addition to being wide open, sexual people, their accounts of, of all of that is first of all, sexy, second of all, illuminating, third of all, just, I don't know, for me, fascinating, fascinating to read. Absolutely. So partly as, as a chronicle of an amazing relationship, partly as a chronicle of that, as you were saying, the sexual revolution,

that particular time in history before AIDS became, uh, an epidemic or before people were aware of it at least. So at a time when everything seemed possible and everybody wanted to check out whatever they wanted to check out. And then also to me, this book is important because, because Marco is a significant figure in, in, uh, in sexuality as a literary figure

and as a sexual figure. And I think that the, in these letters, you get to see who he was not only the ways that he was brilliant, but also the ways that he could be, um, foolish and ridiculous and hypocritical and so on, so that he could be all for open relationship. And then, um, 10 minutes later, he's having a jealous fit because he doesn't like the way Eva's

dancing with somebody at a dance. He's very, very raw. Do you think while he was writing these letters, he was thinking that they might be published. After all, he knew how famous he was and everything else. Marco was always conscious that way. He was always on the stage. But I really think with these letters, he was not. Oh, yeah. Well, they're very open and really, um, unique

and interesting because he was, it was just for Eve, you know, and he was not putting on a face and he was not playing. I don't think, I really don't think he was playing to the public. No, I don't think he was playing either. But I feel that as a reader, I'm hoping he'd be happy that people are reading it. I think he would be. I think even though, even though they are

revealing in a sometimes what we might call unflattering way showing the swinger, the ultimate swinger to be actually very jealous and scared. And yet, you know, that that does make him more human, more, I guess, interesting in a way. And you bring that out by publishing this. It's really kind of extraordinary that it's it's been in shoeboxes until now.

Really, that's great. And then it took 30 years to make this book happen. I mean, uh, first it was just getting the manuscript down. This is before optical scanners and stuff like that. And you know, Eve started typing it all into her computer and got tired of it. Eventually we did get the manuscript together, but then Marko had died, of course, and,

and, um, his will left his intellectual property to his son. So in order to publish the book, it meant getting the permission of his son and nobody knew where his son was. And then it's a long story, but sort of by chance, I was talking to a friend and talking about how much I wanted to publish this book, but we didn't know where Marko's son was. And he said, Oh,

I know where Eric, I talked to Eric last week. I'll put you in touch with him. Eric, thank you, Eric. Vossy. Is he Eric Vossy or something else? I'm sorry? Is this Eric, his son's name is Eric? Yeah, Eric, Eric Van Johnson is his son's name.

Okay, not Vossy. And, uh, yeah, try googling Eric Johnson and trying to find, uh, where Eric Johnson. So is he a writer too? Is he, uh, is he a sexual adventurer or the opposite? No, he's, uh, uh, he's 40 some years, was he maybe 41, 42 years old. Uh, I met him. Wonderful man.

I liked him a lot. He's, he's, uh, leading a, uh, straight life. He's married, got a new baby, just bought a house for the first time. Is working as, uh, uh, assistant dean at a, uh, college in Maryland. Um, and you know, I thought he might, you know, be horrified about his pervert dad, but no, he was very open about that. And, uh,

that's great. When I said, you know, how do you feel about this book happening? He said, sure, go for it. So, well, maybe he's even proud of his dad. Anyway, I want to mention that Max was one of Marco Vossy's publishers in the early, early days in the early, early days, love magazine and then various publications. But I remember one thing about

Marco that I always enjoyed, uh, Annie Sprinkle and Marco myself. And there were a couple of other people. We went down to the Hellfire Club, you know, about that, right? In New York, the Hellfire Club. Yeah. So we're all down, down by the bar and, and, uh, Marco's there and people are in the bathroom pissing on each other and whatever else they're doing back there. And I, then I go,

I turn around and I go, Charlie, your brother, Charlie is my brother. And he's there at the Hellfire Club, you know. And the other thing that I remember about Marco is he sent me a letter when I was in prison in Rhode Island. So those are two nice. Oh yeah. I didn't know that you, um, that you knew him that well. Oh yeah. Yeah. We used to,

everybody was hanging out at Annie Sprinkle's house and we should tell the audience he was in a relationship. He was in a relationship with, I guess, several people, but Annie Sprinkle was one of his relationships. In fact, the one that launched into the one with Eve Diana. Oh really? Yes. They were kind of, uh, I guess, you know, he was very polyamorous, pansexual,

but then he'd have these relationships, I guess. You know, uh, so, um, so yeah. He was married four times. There you go. So four times. That's amazing. And that's not even with the two women I know about. Wow. And those are only the women and then there's all the men. Yeah. Well, he would, you know, he made, he famously said that he had had sex with 500 women

and a thousand men, but his relationships were all with women. Most of his relationships with men, he would hang out at the, at the baths, at the St. Mark's baths, um, in New York. In fact, he worked at the baths. He would clean up after everybody's sixth play at the baths. Oh wow. So he would love to go to the baths and turn himself over. And that, that was a large part

of his sexual experience with men. Yeah. You know, my, my stereotype is that led to his later demise. Uh, but I, I mean, it's a beautiful thing about him, how pansexual he was. I'm a big lover of pan, the God of the wild and the patron saint of the bonobos. And he was certainly the pan of America, you know, and yet, yeah, I mean, somehow, some way he did contract HIV.

Sure. Yeah. I don't seem to know where, you know, I've actually not heard people so much say that they think that he got AIDS, um, at the baths. There, there were various women that he had had sexual relationships with that were sketchy about drugs and, and stuff like that. So, but then there's speculation, but really people don't. Did he do, uh, shooting up himself? Did he?

No, I don't, I don't think he would never go. But he did a lot of anal sex, you know, and anal sex is a beautiful thing, but one of the most likeable ways to spread. You know, um, drugs like, uh, ecstasy and, and poppers and, um, so on, um, poppers. He was definitely into all those experiences, but, you know, that's different from, from hard drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now in your book,

well, in this, I, I guess it is your book, you edited it, but it's the letters of Marco Vasquez and I think it, I think of it as Eve's book or even Marco's book. Um, the editing that I did was mostly providing the energy because I, of all, even more than Eve, I just wanted to see this book happen and I kept on trying to make it, make it happen. There was not a lot of editing,

by the way, of the letters we, we ran them. They're all there. They're, we didn't leave anything out and we didn't change, really didn't change anything. We added footnotes where it wouldn't be clearer what somebody was talking about. Yeah. But pretty much, um, um, it was my editorial decision and Eve agreed to leave it pretty much as is. So there are, there are grammatical errors,

there are type of grad, we corrected typos and stuff like that. It seemed like you did. Yeah. In terms of odd, um, usage and stuff like that, I really, to Eve wanted to clean it up some and I said, no, no, leave it the way it is. It's, uh, it makes it even more genuine. Absolutely. Max would agree. He would even leave in the typos, Max would. But I wanted to ask you about the way he died

in the book you say, or yeah, this is the part where you say, because he's not alive, to say it that it was self-induced pneumonia. Yeah. Well, see, I, I have access to a lot of, of his unpublished material. I have access to the diaries that he kept from the time that he was diagnosed, uh, with HIV, which was in May of 1987 until he died, which was January of 1989. So during that time he

chronicled, um, all of what he was feeling, feeling and doing. He was tremendously depressed. He explicitly tried to commit suicide twice once by taking pills, which ended up with him in a psych ward in, uh, in Manhattan, and once by trying to hang himself, but the electrical cord that he used snapped. So instead of kill, well, he sort of fell and then the, the electrical cord snapped.

And instead of killing him, he swung across the room and crashed into a radiator and, and woke up bleeding, uh, but, but not dead. And he wrote that he, he was a cautionary tale not to try to commit suicide. All right. So, uh, yeah. Well, anyway, I, so why, what does self-induced pneumonia mean? Well, what he did was, um, in, in November of 1988 in the middle of a snowstorm in New York,

he went outside dressed in nothing but boxer shorts, um, and, uh, and managed to catch pneumonia. Then he locked himself in his room and didn't answer his phone for a month. So by the time people got through to him, um, he was pretty far gone. So at that point, which was like New Year's Eve of 1988, they got him to Metropolitan Hospital in New York, where he was put on a

breathing machine for two weeks, but, but then he died. I see. Okay. So he actually didn't die of AIDS. He died of self-induced pneumonia. Now I understand what self-induced pneumonia is. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, um, I guess I would like to change the subject a little bit, um, because we are kind of getting close in time. Uh, so there was some good news that you got,

uh, and I'm looking down because, um, you had, uh, the, the federal third circuit court of appeals ruled on your section 2257 lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of extreme record keeping requirements related to the production of sexually explicit photographs and films. And this was a victory of common sense over hysteria in an era of hysteria

and so just please in a, uh, capsulize what, uh, happened. Section 2257 is from a law that was passed that is supposedly about preventing child pornography, but actually was designed to make it so, um, tedious in terms of, of record keeping that you had to keep regarding sexual photographs and films as to make it virtually impossible for people to

produce, uh, porn at all. Uh, the, uh, incredibly detailed record keeping that had to be available for the government to come in and inspect without notice at any time, um, which might work for big time porn producers, but for, like I'm an erotic photographer in addition to being a writer for photographers and, uh, it was just completely impossible. Like

technically I had to be home where the records were kept that proved that anybody I ever photographed was over 18. I had to be available at any time for somebody to knock on the door and show them those records, meaning I couldn't leave my house. I couldn't go on vacation. I couldn't do. Anyway, the Free Speech Coalition, um, and a collection of 14 plaintiffs brought suit

against the, uh, Justice Department to have this law declared unconstitutional. Okay. And it took us nine, nine years and successive appeals and back and forth, uh, when the 30th Circuit was in Philadelphia, but, uh, we finally won, uh, for the court to declare the law to be unconstitutional, both with regard to the Fourth Amendment about, uh, illegal search and seizure and also with regard

to the First Amendment in terms of, uh, just people should be able to, you know, express themselves and produce, uh, visual imagery regarding sexuality, um, without being hindered by the government. So that was, that was, it was very gratifying. Uh, so, so now they can't come in without, uh, you know, mine, at the end of my, uh, declaration, I say, if you want to see these,

you have to make an appointment with me. That's what I have. Yeah. But now that that's true, we, we won the, that part of it, the Fourth Amendment part of it, we won two years ago. The First Amendment part where it said it's unconstitutional to require of these photographers that they have records proving that 70 year old people that they're photographing are

over 18. That, that's the level of, of the record. And it was, and not only did you have to have proof of that, but you had to have it cross-referenced and cross-filed in, in all these ways. Yeah. Make it just impossible for anybody to really do. And it's been nine years. Amazing. The ruling was that that was overbroad and that you could not, um, require us to do that.

And that's what you were saying, Max, nine years ago, but, uh, you know, it's, it's taken this to, uh, to overturn it. Because, you know, all of this in, in, in this society and in most societies, freedom is never free, ever. You have to pay in some form, you know. So, yeah, normal stuff in a way. And now they're talking about arresting us again. Yeah. You

know, and putting us behind bars again. Bringing back these old obscenity laws and Bill Barr is just so salivating to do that. Yeah. And speaking of some modern politics right now, bringing us into the modern age, um, you, of course, have as your Facebook avatar, um, the late, great Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And she kind of looks like she could be your auntie or something, you know.

Like, really? I almost thought it was you. And then I went, no, wait a second. I said, oh, you're wearing a collar, but no, it's her. Uh, no much. Anyway, so, um, it's, uh, it's like, pretty amazing her life and what she did and, uh, the way her fans all booed Trump when he came out to kind of see her casket. And now he's putting in, uh, kind of her opposite. I mean,

yeah, you know, yeah. So you being her nephew and spirit and who else? How do you feel? I mean, that, that she's like a part of a group that is called people of praise that calls women handmaids and, and, uh, the husband is called the head and we're on our way to Gilead. I know they were not the ones that inspired the handmaids to how that's another group because there's a lot of these groups,

but yet they do use the term handmade or they did before the television show became a hit. And what is happening? I mean, in, in the days when you came of age, sex was on the rise. Is it now falling like Jerry Falwell? Or is it the pendulum just swings back and forth? Or what do you think? Well, I think, I mean, I was so, you know, that, that she died. Of course, we were all just

praying that she would stay alive until, um, after a new president was inaugurated. But, um, no, I looks, I mean, my understanding is that there is no way to prevent them from appointing a conservative justice to take her place. The best we can do is make the Republican senators who vote for that appointment pay by voting them out of office in November. Hopefully the consequence of

that will be a democratic takeover of the Senate in it, you know, so that assuming Biden gets elected, that we can begin moving things in a positive direction again. But the Supreme Court right now, it's tragic. It's, it's, it's not going to be the friend of freedom in the, in the near future. Well, probably not. But yet there are sometimes pleasant surprises like Neil Gorsuch

doing that gay favorable ruling. And I mean, yeah, we can't give up hope, can we? I mean, I don't know if that's what happened with Marco. He should have just gotten into the cuckold role. It was almost like his jealousy was a harbinger of the cuckold fetish or something. It was, he almost eroticized it. It was so painful though. I don't know. But now we have Jerry Falwell

as a cuckold, not as romantic as Marco Vossi. Anyway, what, did you want to say something, Max? Oh, no, I just want to say it was just nice to see him and growing old gracefully and, and still, you know, fighting that good fight and, you know, and pursuing, pursuing really what we need to pursue because otherwise everything else doesn't count the pursuit of happiness.

If you're not happy in your fucking life, all these other liberties and are worthless. That's all I have to say. And it's wonderful seeing you. And we're going to promote the book as much as we can. And, and if you come down to LA, come see us. Yes. And say hi to Kim Mears, right? Yeah, my partner. We met her when you guys were down for my little Bonobo Way launch party. And she was working

with the enjoyers. Yeah, the place. And yeah, which, okay, so, so good luck with your new book, The Shepherd and the nymph. And let's get a shot of holding both books. Yes. And thank you so much. David Steinberg, you should get both books. I'm sure they're on Amazon and a bunch of other places. And, yeah. And so David Steinberg, not the comedian, although he can be funny, but,

but a great sex revolutionary, for sure. Yes, yes, yes. All right, until we meet again. Okay, good to see you. Thanks. Take care. All right. So David Steinberg, so let's see, where are we at brothers and sisters? We are having a bedside chat. Crystal is is there. Okay, let's talk to a gorgeous and multi talented actress. We're

going to switch gears. I mean, not that, you know, David isn't gorgeous. Are we going to show anything naked here? Not at the moment. Okay. But here she is. She is gorgeous as build and and she has a gorgeous build. And her name is Crystal Taylor. And she is yes, as I said, multi talented. She is a gymnast and a skater and an

aerialist. She flies through the air with the greatest of ease. At least she makes it look easy. I'm sure it isn't so easy, but it looks so much fun and easy and sexy. It's incredibly sexy. It reminds me a little bit of Dutch Olympic level gymnast we had who's also a porn star, Verona Vandeler, who was on the show, but more circusy and kind of like Cirque du Soleil with sex,

because yes, she is also an adult star. So let's welcome to the Dr. Susan Block show, Crystal Taylor. Well, we are here with you from the 60s to 2020. So how you doing, Crystal Taylor? Excellent. You look excellent. You certainly do. So what kind of space are we in right now? Is this this looks like some sort of performance space or at least a workout space? This is my house.

It's your playhouse? No, it's my literal house. It's your literal house, which is kind of a playhouse, actually, and has a very high ceiling. It looks like, you know, somebody could kind of build a loft in there, but you have your long sheets of beautiful fabric that you fly around on, huh? My chiropractor says I'm always climbing with curtains. So what do you call that? That's aerial

dancing or fabric dancing? Part of gymnastics. Where are you? Tell us. We're in my house right now, and there's a loft upstairs, and all my aerial equipment is here. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, and so you are an aerialist. I am. And how long have you been doing that? I think this is more probably at about between a 10 and 15 year mark.

Okay. And where are you? Are you what? I don't even know where you're zooming in from. Los Angeles. Oh, you're right around the corner, but it's you know how I got ecore, I think put us in touch. Ecore. Shout out to ecore the wolf. Oh, we love ecore. Yeah, so ecore. So, well, that's cool. Well, he often does get in touch with

talented people, especially talented, beautiful women. That's certainly a favorite of ecores and of ours. And we're excited to see you do some aerial performing. And we also, you know, have been combing your Twitter and website and looking at you doing some amazing stuff. We loved watching you skating in the tiniest little G string I think I've ever seen. Yeah, that's like my daily outfit.

That's how I roll. Yeah. Well, we're going to show that on the, I mean, I think that's so tiny, we can't show that on our YouTube version. YouTube has gotten very, very like, uh, very, I guess, um, sex negative in a way cut this part of the performance out because my cheeks are definitely visible on this outfit. Well, I want to see those cheeks. Nice. Yeah, you could,

you could say, okay, so now we're going to see some cheeks. So where's our YouTube Facebook camera? And let's move that around. And let's see these luscious cheeks. Yes. Nice. Very well toned. And I love how you look like, uh, almost virginal in all that white. I'm waiting for somebody to come take my virginity. Oh, wow. You're a damsel, not in distress, but in need of seduction. That's so tempting

and erotic. And yeah. And you also look like you were wrapped in a present. I mean, by that, all the wrappings. Is that something you did? Or is that a designer? What, or is this, um, actually, it's just, uh, like one of the regular bikinis I wear with just a body net over. It's way more simple. A body net. Okay. Well, it's certainly very sexy and almost

looks like a kind of holster that might help you to fly if you put some, you know, totally stuff in. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Flying. Do you feel like you're flying when you, you know, get up there and spin around? I feel like an angel when I'm in the air. You look like an angel. There's something that the roller skating does to your equilibrium that is the closest thing

to flying. So I, I skateboard too. And I used the roller blade as a kid, but now I'm pretty much on quads, but anything that involves like getting up in the air or going fast on wheels just makes me feel the most alive that I possibly could. Nice. Beautiful. Well, you look like an angel. And I actually, when I was asking about flying, I was thinking of you up in the air, but you're

right. Roller skating. Uh, I've done a little roller skating. I'm not a skateboarder. I'm not that crazy. Uh, but, uh, it does feel like flying when you get in that groove, which you seem like you're perpetually in. And of course, Freud, we all know Dr. Freud, Sigmund, he said that dreams of flying always signify sex and especially the idea of sexual release.

He felt like everything was about sex, but a lot of it was sexual frustration and well, maybe fetish or desire or whatever, but that flying was the feeling of sexual release. I think that that's accurate. There's a lot to that because especially being a porn performer, a lot of the, you know, when you're, when you're doing porn, you can express

a variety of really extreme sexual fantasies in a safe container. And sometimes when I'm fulfilling those fantasies, maybe they don't quite get the reaction that I thought they were going to get out of me, not even out of the audience, right? Maybe it didn't feel quite what I was going to. And I feel like that with, with the aerial and being up in the air, there is

forever this balance between the strength and flexibility and it's, it's like a really erotic form of expression for me. Although when I went through circus training, they focused on the technical stuff and not on the artistic expression. So it's like, first you have to learn the words, then you make the sentences and then you can create poetry. And so it took years for

me to be able to express my sexuality in the air the way I wanted to. And it's just so fulfilling for me. Well, couldn't have been that many years, girl, because you barely look like you're old enough to, you know, come into my bar. But anyway, I mean, I, I thought, you know, yeah, maybe you're in your 20s, maybe late 20s, but mom, oh, wow. Well, you know, flying must

keep you young. Flying keeps you young. That's all I can say. Because, uh, yeah, you, you look incredibly like an angel. So you do. What, what's that? I didn't hear that. I said, tell her your age. Just your age. She's 82. Oh, haha. Yeah, I'm 82. Well, now my age is top secret. But so, yeah, so, um, to change the subject,

I, when we were looking at your Twitter, we saw you hanging from something and in the middle of having sex with some lucky guy. Who was that guy? That guy has to remain nameless because he's actually like not on the only person he's ever shot a porn with. He's actually like a fitness model. And, um, well, he's very fit.

I popped his cherry with orange and he was, he's just, he's such a good sport and he had such good control of himself. And I got, like I scoured the internet looking for aerial porn and I couldn't find shit. And so I was like, this is my thing, my thing. I need to be up in the air getting fucked. And I wanted to make that happen so bad. And I realized that if I come on to set

and start telling directors what I want to do, I'll never get hired again. So I have to produce this shit on my own. And I like the reaction that I've gotten so far. It seems like everyone is they're down with my level of weird. Yes, well, we're certainly down with it. And we're showing that little excerpt on our x rated channel.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just incredible. It's just beautiful. I mean, both angles when we see your face and when we see it is just pure body, you know, limbs and genitalia. It's just so intense and such an acrobatic feet. And yet it's just sex, you know, as they say. Metasex, as Marco Vasi might say, metasex. Yeah. So, so, well, can we see you do a little flying

on your I'm so grateful for you having me on. Thank you. I have my assistant George over here. So he's going to control the remote to follow me up and down. All right. Thank you, George. Is anybody going to get naked? I don't think she's naked. I think you just have to be,

you know, aware of the cheeks. Okay. Whether we, you know, the certain angle she's going to go up into the air. I mean, I think she looks great. She's now doing. No, I don't think she is these trapezoids. What, what are you applying to your hands? That's kind of like a powder. I use a, it's like a liquid version of rosin for gymnast and it helps your hand stick to the fabric.

I generally don't use this except I just washed my fabric. So it's very slick right now. Oh, okay. Well, it's very sexy to watch you rub your hands like that. A lot of people are thinking about you rubbing other things. So now your hands are rosin'd up. Yeah. Soon I'm going to get a therapy client that says,

I have a rosin rubbing fetish doctor. I got music ready. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready for Crystal Taylor, aerialist and flower child. That was amazing. So beautiful. Yes. The beautiful and amazing. Crystal Taylor. Flying through the air with the greatest of ease that daring young girl on the flying trapeze,

something like that. That's not called a trapeze. What is that called? What is it? A fabric dance? I don't know. Aerial tissue or aerial silk, but I actually do have a trapeze right in the doorway. Whoops. Sorry. Aerial silk. Yeah. Oh, I see it. Yes. We used to have a trapeze artist that was one of our producers here and yes, it's amazing. So that was gorgeous. I mean,

have you ever had sex up there like that and with the aerial silk? I have sex when I'm the one up in the air, but usually the guys not like, unless they're trained, they don't know how to get up in the air with me. But I just shot a porn recently with Nathan Bronson and he's like a, he does parkour and he does a lot of floor gymnastics. So he has good body awareness and it was easy

for me to have him come over for like two hours on a weekend and just train him to do a couple of moves and those photos are up on my Instagram. Whoa. Well, you know, I just find it so sexy the whole, you know, gymnastics and sex. And after all, isn't that what we watch porn for? Sexual gymnastics, except it's usually just to the genitalia kind. And this is more the whole body.

It's amazing. So, well, Crystal, what are your future plans, I guess, in the corona apocalypse and after the corona apocalypse? I'm already living my dream and I really just want to continue to live the way that I'm living now because as it stands, I mean, I get to roller skate every day for like seven to 10 miles. I get to do my contortion training five days a week and

I have an aerial rig in my house and I can express myself through porn. And I feel like I live a really blessed life. And actually, for given the state of affairs in the world, I feel very fortunate and extremely grateful. It is a tough time for most people right now. But some of us are fortunate to be able to do what we love and find a way to communicate.

And so, yeah, I'm happy for you. And I would love to see you do more and have you back on again both through Zoom and, you know, when this is over in person. And, yeah, Flower Child, keep on flowering. Absolutely. Where can we find you? I know on Twitter at Crystal Taylor XO. The Twitter at Crystal Taylor XO Instagram is I Love Crystal Taylor or VIP Crystal Taylor. And then

my website is ILoveCrystalTaylor.com. I Love Crystal Taylor. And that's just me talking, but I do love you. And I love what you do. And yeah, I mean, I love the circus. I love all that. We got to talk more about that sometime and do some clowning. But in the meantime, have a wonderful night. And thank you for joining us, Crystal Taylor. All the best to you, Sissy.

Thank you. Crystal Taylor. So beautiful. What a contrast. And yet, our two guests did go great together, you know, different approaches to sexuality, eroticism, and art. Very different arts, but there's all kinds of arts in our beautiful culture. And by the way, if you're a fan of Merrick DeVille, well, we were maybe going to be able to talk to her tonight. But yeah, she's very

busy in Louisville. She's doing triage and helping out with what's going on in the protests of Louisville. And certainly our hearts are with her. And a lot of protesters out there for Breonna Taylor and Justice, which I guess she's not getting. But you know, just because we don't get what we want doesn't mean we give up, you know? Because a lot of times we don't get what

we want. And nevertheless, you know, I think unless, you know, you do give up and sometimes you can give up in a very dramatic, flamboyant, even erotic way like Markovasi going out in a blaze of freezing air in your boxer shorts. Crazy. But you know, okay. But mostly we just gotta keep fighting. And I don't mean punching fighting. I mean, you know, going for it. And what we

gotta go for right now is good sex. And voting blue. And I want to thank my guests, David Steinberg and Crystal Taylor. I want to thank B. Thank you, Bunny B. Okay. And yay, Bunny B. Can you show the beautiful Bunny B? You're not showing her. Show Bunny B. Where's the camera? Oh, there's different. I don't know what camera's on.

And oh, hello, camera. Okay, I've been looking at Maine. Okay. Well, anyways, and Max left, so I won't thank him because, you know, time is short. But oh, he's back. Okay. I'm back. It's just whenever I hear helicopters, I go check outside. Helicopters, right, right. Well, yeah, it could be happening all over again. You know,

the pendulum swings, but we got to swing like bonobos and adapt, you know, swing through life and make like bonobos, not baboons, make love, not war, make love to someone you love tonight. Even if that someone is you, I love you for the erotic garden. Specializing in sex therapy or a hot phone sex experience or a combination. My world renowned telephone sex therapists are just a phone call

away. Totally private, absolutely confidential. We listen, talk with you, advise you, role play for you, fantasize with you. No fantasy is too taboo and help you with anything from impotence to exhibitionism, fears to desires, fetishes to marriages. For more information, call us at 213-291-9497. That's 213-291-9497 anytime you need to talk.

You're looking to radio city one and worldwide web.