Dolphin Sex

Full transcript of Dolphin Sex on The Dr. Susan Block Show:

need to talk with someone about something you can't talk about with anyone else? You can talk to us. I'm Dr. Susan Block, your mistress of the airwaves, but my day job is director of the Dr. Susan Block Institute for the Erotic Arts and Sciences, specializing in sex therapy

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For more information, call us at 213-291-9497. That's 213-291-9497 anytime you need to talk. You're listening to Radio Susie One on the World Wide Web, and now here she is, Dr. Susan Block. Brothers and sisters, lovers and sinners, artists and exhibitionists, voyeurs and connoisseurs,

all you children sex, and we are all children of sex with a capital X. Can I get an A man? A man. Can I get an A woman?

A woman. And sex from procreation, which takes up about this much of sex, to recreation, which takes up this much, and relationships, which takes up even more. We talk about it all on this show.

The Dr. Susan Block show, broadcasting live from the Little Love Church of the Bonobo Way in the village of Bonoboville. Yes, indeed, brothers and sisters, we are here for you. And if you're tuned in live, well, there's good and there's bad.

And I heard Amazon was burning, and I was momentarily excited until I realized it was the wrong one. Now, I could have said that, but it was actually counterpunch editor Joshua Frank. Thank you, Joshua. And really, too bad it wasn't Jeff Bezos' monstrosity.

And I'm not talking about his pecker. It's the original Amazon brothers and sisters, the rainforest, one of the great lungs of the earth, the other being the Congo rainforest where the Bonobos are. And this one is being decimated, just like that one, by human encroachment.

And right now, this one, the Amazon in Brazil, our hemisphere, is burning. Our lungs are burning. I can almost feel it. I know the people in Brazil can feel it.

The raging fires. They're not just a natural phenomenon. It's a crime scene. And the victims include indigenous people, the original Amazonians.

And the living biosphere itself. Our mother, the earth. And the president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, the Brazilian Trump. I am going to smack him around tonight.

Whoa. I didn't mean to smack her. But anyway, I'm going to smack him. And yeah, they're just burning the rainforest.

And meantime, our plastic pollution has turned the entire ocean into a garbage bin. And it's a sea of plastic and oil spills, all of which is deadly to all of the creatures of the sea. And us, eventually, because we eat those creatures of the sea. But many creatures are dying from our oil spills and our plastic, including dolphins.

Cute, adorable, smart, interesting dolphins. And yeah, speaking of dolphins, we are going to talk about dolphin sex tonight. That's right.

Our guest tonight will be Malcolm J. Brenner. We should get him on the line. Photographer and author of the book Wet Goddess, Reflections of a Dolphin Lover. Yes, yes, Dolphin Lover.

And he's also the subject of a video called Dolphin Lover. And it's subtitled The Real Shape of Water. You could say Malcolm is a zoophile. You could.

And even though he has had relationships with women, the most important relationship of his life was with a dolphin named Dolly. Trigger warning. And you can turn the music down.

And also, there's static in my ears. Can you turn the static down, please? So I got a trigger warning. This show could be disturbing to some people.

Obviously, people who are upset by zoophilia. And that's a lot of people. And by the way, zoophilia, which is a little bit different than bestiality but related, it's the erotic love that some women, some women, some humans, men, women, humans,

basically have for some non-human animals. Of course, we humans are animals. But we generally just have sex with each other, not with non-human animals. And believe me, I'm not saying that zoophilia is just fine.

And I'm not encouraging anyone to have sex with non-human animals. Many people who do actually hurt the animals. And in most cases, some cases at least, this is animal abuse. But not always.

Not always. And as a sex therapist, I try to keep an open mind about just different sexual interests and fetishes and activities. And I'm against anything non-consensual.

And, you know, some people, some very few maybe, I don't know how many, who would have sex with a non-human animal, would never hurt that non-human animal, or do anything non-consensual with that non-human animal. Now, you may ask, and I understand, how can a non-human animal possibly consent?

And that's a very good question. Consent in our language, in our understanding, in our communication. And it's all I can say so far is it's a little complicated. And we're going to talk about that with our guest Malcolm J. Brenner,

who I think is up there on our webcam in Skype. And I believe from the very little that I know about him, and I've never actually met him. I've seen his videos and read some things.

And I don't think he would deliberately hurt any creature, human or animal. But he did have a sexual experience. You could even say it was a romantic experience with a dolphin. And, yeah, I have a floaty dolphin here.

Well, we have so many dolphins here. That's what Max is my outfit. Oh, there's another dolphin crawling up Max's leg. We've got dolphins everywhere, actually.

We have floaty dolphins. I have a dolphin on my cheek. You have a dolphin on your fingernails, too. Oh, I have dolphins on my cheek.

And Sunshine also made dolphin cookies. Oh, dolphin cookies. So eat dolphin cookies. Don't eat dolphins, okay?

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting and enlightening. Hello. Are we okay, technically? Okay, I thought it would be interesting and enlightening

to hear and explore Malcolm J. Brenner's story. So welcome to the Dr. Susan Block Show, Malcolm. Well, thank you very much, Susan, for having me on. It's nice to be here.

I don't often get a chance to talk with a certified sex therapist. I'm not certified. I'm very proud of not being certified. I am a sex therapist.

I have two PhDs, and they're from two different universities, and I've been practicing sex therapy for over 27, 28, actually 30 years. But I do not wish to be certified,

because if I was certified, I would not be able to do bone sex therapy, which is my main form of therapy, and I would maybe not be able to even talk to you

in the way that I'm talking to you. So I just want to clear that up. I have been invited a couple of times to speak before ASECT, which certifies sex therapists

about bonobos, and I'm a member of ASECT, but I'm not certified by ASECT. So that being said, please continue. I misspoke.

That's okay. I'm supposed to research you. You don't have to research me. Great.

Is that Sunshine with you? Yes. Yeah, I'm on the side. Hi, Malcolm.

I'm the one you've been talking to. I've been talking to you forever. Yes. I just want to give a big shout-out to Sunshine.

I'm a marine biologist on this program with me. I'm sorry, but science is so stuck up that you couldn't get one to come on. We don't want to start with negativity.

I've done research. We may have a marine biologist on another time. We do this show every Saturday night, and we talk about sex mostly between humans,

but we also talk a lot about sex between bonobos, who are almost like dolphins, although they never kill each other. They have a lot of sex like dolphins,

and they're very, very pansexual, you could say. But they never kill each other. Sex seems to prevent them from murder. It helps them to cut down on violence.

Now, dolphins are not the most violent creatures in the sea, but they do commit infanticide, and they're a little violent. But they're very sexual, and they're very, very smart.

Anyway, we have you. You are not a marine biologist. You're an author. You're an artist, a photographer.

We don't need a marine biologist to explain your story. No, I don't. It starts back in 1970, when I was a... All right, let's get into the way back machine.

1970. Wow, that's a long time ago. Yeah. The internet was a little more than a glean in some science fiction writers' eyes.

The military had it. Yes, ARPANET. But I was a sophomore... Yeah, sophomore student at New College,

which is in Sarasota, Florida, not far from where I am now into that. And I was pursuing a career in photography and film. Yeah.

When I got asked to by a writer who lived in the community, she had recently moved there, and she had written and published a book about these dolphins

at the Samuson Park, Florida Land, which was south of town. Florida Land. What a place. You can't have a place like that anymore.

They kind of exploited the dolphins, but, you know, it looks like fun. This was the last of the pre-Disney amusement parks. Was this before Flipper?

This was after Flipper. Oh, it was considerably after Flipper. Flipper came out in 1963. Wow.

And that, of course, and the writings of Dr. John Willie, who became famous later on for taking acid in a sensory isolation tank,

kicked off a lot of interest about dolphins that hadn't been there for maybe 3,000 years. I think the Greeks were quite interested in them, but anyway,

so I got a cast of basically a carte blanche to go to this park and do whatever I wanted of taking photographs, that is. And I got to know the people there.

And what was unusual about Florida Land was they had one dolphin in a sea level pen. Now, they also engaged in catching and selling dolphins at this park.

But Donnie was kept in a sea level pen because she went out every day with a river boat that took people out on this little tour into the Lemon Bay, as it's called.

And she would swim along, she would ride the bow waves, a matter of fact. Hang on just a second. Abe, my headphones are really buzzing loud.

So I guess I shouldn't wear them. Okay, can I hear him without the headphones? Yeah. Can you hear me without the headphones?

Yeah, it doesn't sound as good, but it's okay. And I love my headphones, but I can't handle this buzz. Yeah, I got a buzz on, too. Oh, yeah, baby.

Okay, yeah. Talking about LSD gives me a buzz at John Lilly. He was kind of wild, almost like Timothy Leary, who I had on my show quite a few years ago.

Timothy Leary in the 80s. That was interesting. Anyway, Dolly was the only dolphin outside the U.S. military that was allowed into open water to perform on free release,

and then she'd go back to her pen. Yes. And once in a while, you know, she'd take off with a couple of male dolphins

that were swimming by and be gone for anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days, and then she'd come back and settle down. And that was her part of the performance.

She would jump 11 feet from the water. I think I'd sent you some pictures of that. Yes, pictures of her jumping for food, mostly. Yes, well, she worked for rewards.

But I never gave the dolphin anything. The only thing I ever tried to reward her with was a game of catch with a rubber ball. Okay.

So she liked playing catch? Over and much. Oh, yeah. And so do bonobos, by the way.

It's a recreational thing. It's like it's not sex, of course, but animals like us, non-human animals, who have a lot of intelligence, really enjoy play.

Anyway, so you were playing catch with Dolly. Well, actually, I decided to turn the game of catch into a language lesson. I was going to withhold the ball until she squawked.

And then I was going to try to shape her squawk using conventional conditioning techniques by throwing the ball as a reward. Okay.

So in other words, she squawked. I threw the ball. She changed her squawk a little bit. I throw it again.

I was trying to shape her to say her name, Dolly. Well, in about five minutes, I got her to basically give a very good rendition of her name that she got the D sound at the beginning.

She got the E sound at the beginning. Yeah, my dolphin can talk, too. Then she turned the tables on me. This is what's interesting.

She began squawking at me, and I decided to try to imitate her because I figured turnabout is fair play. And this is what I mean.

When I talk about people being willing to take a lesson from the dolphins, I can't see any Ph.D. marine biologist wanting to do that. Exactly.

They always think they're higher, or they think they know more is what you're saying, so they don't want to take the lesson from the dolphin. They're afraid of losing their job.

Oh, yeah. Or their tenure. Tenure. Everybody needs tenure.

And you can't do contra... It's one of the reasons there's been very little study of bonobos and certainly nothing hands-on that anybody really talks about. Hands-on to speak.

Yeah. It's very controversial in the hallowed halls of academia where people are harassing each other and students and whatnot. But yeah, this is controversial,

even though it could be considered a form of research. So go on. Well, I forgot to tell you, at the beginning of doing all this, when I was first trying to get her to say her name,

she was giving me a certain squawk. And I didn't want that squawk. Not a squeak, a squawk? A squawk.

Something like that. Oh, okay. She shaped my response until I found myself making the squawk

that she had started making in the beginning. Oh. And then when I did that, she just went nuts. I mean, she threw herself into the air

and went splashing around the pen as if, you know, a really lovable but dumb dog. You've been trying to teach us a trick for a while. It's just done the trick, right?

Give it a big reward. All right. And then a bunch of tourists arrived on the tour train that ran around the place

and they floated down to the dolphin pen and began asking me questions like I knew something about it. And the spell was broken.

And I never repeated. Well, I did try to repeat that experience once with her when my mother was visiting me and my stepfather.

And because he had known John Lee. So you sound like you were kind of a very you know, you did a lot of things that dolphin trainers might do.

But how did you wind up falling in love with Dolly and et cetera, et cetera? Well, it wasn't because of any prior interest in dolphins as sex objects.

Not dolphins, but other animals. Other animals. Which we're going to get to in a second and well in a minute.

We're going to get to some of your experiences with other non-human animals. And like I said trigger warning everybody if this bothers you

and I no blame, no judgment then you know, you can change the channel or switch the page or whatever we do. But if it does interest you

because it is an ancient, ancient subject. I mean, seriously, it's very controversial. In most cases it's probably wrong. But humans have been having sex

with non-human animals. Let's just say since there were humans. There's like art about it, right? Ancient Greek art.

Well there's ancient Greek art about it. Mainly because that's you know that was a big thing that they did. The shepherds and the goat herds

and then they had mythical things like creating the minotaur from a human woman and a bull. Supposedly all of Europe was created

by the goddess Europa having sex with Zeus, the king of the gods dressed as a bull. No, you're not a bull.

But this isn't Dolly. Actually Dolly's over there. This is Peter. But we'll talk about Peter in a moment.

But in any case, yeah, I mean there's Leila and the swan, Leida and the swan. I mean Da Vinci did a beautiful painting of that. It's very controversial.

So again trigger warning, but we're going to go ahead and talk about how Malcolm... You're saying this is very controversial. Kinsey back in the 1950s

discovered that about one in six men and about one in 12 women has had a sexual experience with a non-human. Wow, that's a lot.

This is a lot more common than you think. About 15% of the men running around. But there might have been more farmers then. I don't know.

There might have been more people dealing with the outdoors. And in a way, sex was very taboo to talk about but because nobody talked about it you could have it in very taboo ways

without other people. And then just never talk about it again. Yeah, just never talk about it. But nowadays people talk about it a lot

like we're doing and it creates more barriers. And again, I'm not judging. There are more barriers in a way now

than there were back in the Kinsey day. And you were doing this kind of in the Kinsey day. When did he come out with... He came out with male sexuality

sexuality in like 1950? 50-something. And 50-something. And then female sexuality.

Anyway, so you were after that and you were in a time of very, very rampant, you could say, sexual exploration on the part of a lot of people,

especially people taking LSD. But in any case, go on. Well, I want to say that the whole sexual thing was the dolphin's idea.

The dolphin's idea. Now, I don't know if I agree, but okay, go ahead. Well, I didn't want to be a zoophile.

You didn't want to. I wanted to be normal. Yeah. You know, a 20-year-old wants to be,

you know, sexually different from their... ...from the family. I do understand.

Yeah. So I had previously had a relationship with a dog. I put that out of my mind and I decided I was going to, you know,

control things with Dolly. And I found that when you get into the water with her, there is no controlling a 400-pound dolphin. Uh-huh.

That's important to know. One of the things I did, and I think I sent you some pictures of this, too, is I met this young woman

that I really wanted to impress because I would be a white term. Right. And I took her down to the dolphin pool

and she got in the water with Dolly and Dolly took her over to the far side of the pool and started to beat her up. Beat her up, kind of punch her with her nose.

Yeah, we saw those pictures here. Yes, began battering her with her snout. And I jumped into the water and threw my arm around the dolphin

to strain her so the young woman could get at it. But this is a 400-pound dolphin. Yes. I guess she wanted to be pulled away.

I guess so. You know, it got me into the water with her. Otherwise you couldn't have. Yeah, yeah.

Yes. That's the thing. You realize later on, wait a minute, this creature's been out thinking of me.

Wow. That's the way it is around dolphins if you let them be who they really are. Now, most trainers can't

because they have shows to do. Right. And the dolphins have to perform silly routines like wearing floppy hats

and jumping through rings, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And that often is a dolphin abuse, what the trainers do.

They force the dolphins. Yes, it is. They starve the dolphins until they do the tricks. Yes.

Especially rampant in, I'm sorry to say this, in Asia and the third world, which is just consuming dolphins at a fantastic rate.

They die in captivity after, you know, anywhere ranging from a few months to a couple of years over there. And they just replace them with more dolphins.

Malcolm, excuse me a second, Malcolm. Sure. What do you have that's rattling around? Nothing.

Nothing? I'm tapping my fingers? I don't know because I'm, we're picking up. Tapping your fingers.

Don't tap your fingers because it's coming through loud and clear. Sounds like you're playing drums. Ah, I'll put my hands on my lap about that.

That's fine. Just on your lap. Yeah, on your lap. And we don't know what you're doing in your lap.

What are all of us doing? But, you know, you look, you look fine now. And we don't hear the song. I mean the song.

That's what it was. Overly sensitive microphones. Okay. So, so yeah.

So you were developing this very special relationship with Dolly. And, and, and eventually you had sex with Dolly. Well, the dolphin gradually acclimatized me to the way she wanted to make love. Make love.

She treated me like, she treated me like a male dolphin and was very rough and kind of ruse with me. Uh huh. In fact, I think she knew what I was thinking.

This is a little known fact about dolphins. She knew what you were thinking. They are telepathic. Oh, they're, they're telepathic.

So they, she must have known you were interested. She did it because I let something slip the first time I got in the water. Oh. She wouldn't, she wouldn't come near me.

She wouldn't come near my hands. She wouldn't let me touch her. And I thought kind of furiously in my monster, you know, common human hands. We can do all kinds of things with them.

And one of the things that flashed through my mind was the way a man stands in foreplay. But it stopped. Your voice is cutting in and out.

So I don't know if that's true just in my headphones or in general. I think it's in your headphones. Okay. So just keep talking and I'll listen later.

No. I don't know. The dolphin stopped. She looked at me and then she swam over and let me touch her.

Oh. I thought, well, it's kind of weird. Do you have the picture of her touching the dolphin? Yes.

And now just showing the young and sexy Malcolm. Okay. At age what? 20.

So. About 20, yeah. Yeah. And you're kind of petting the dolphin, you could say.

You're not doing anything. This is nothing sexual. This isn't petting the dolphin. Mark, Mark easy.

Okay. He's just kind of petting the dolphin. Like we rub Betsy's stomach. You know, we all rub Betsy's stomach.

A lot of people rub non-human animals. She attacks him. A pet. You could say pet.

She attacks her. So anyway, that's what he's doing. And that's what Malcolm is doing in the picture. And I think that was the first time she let you touch her.

I'm not sure. Yes. It went like this. Dolphins like to be rubbed because their skin is continually

flaking off. That's how they can swim at such speeds. So they like to be rubbed. And I started rubbing her in her head.

And she very slowly swam forward while rotating until by the time I got to her belly, she was belly up. Wow. And then she snapped forward and I was rubbing her vulva.

Her vulva. And I thought, yes. And let me just say here for those who don't know about Dolphin anatomy that Dolphins have a very pronounced clitoris

on their vulva. And so do bonobos. And of course, so do human women. And this enables us to have sex for pleasure, to have orgasms

during sex. So it's not just humans. A lot of people used to think it was just humans that had clitorises.

But other non-human animals do. And Dolphins really do. I mean, they've got pictures of the vulva and the clitoris right in, do we have it showing?

Okay. So anyway, so she revealed her vulva and her clitoris. Right. I just thought this isn't the kind of show people paid money

from the Florida Embassy. And I went back to her head again. Right. Florida lands a little bit like Disneyland.

And there are kids there. So you don't want to be stimulating the Dolphins clitoris in Florida land. Not in front of everybody.

No, not in front of everybody. But she did the same thing again. And I sort of broke off. Now, from that point, she got rather more aggressive.

And it got to the point where she would nasturbate by rubbing her vulva against my sneaker or my naked foot. If I wasn't wearing sneakers, you have to wear sneakers

because of the barnacles on the rocks. And one time when I thought I could convince her not to do this, I just rolled up in a ball. I pulled up my legs and arms and I thought,

OK, I can hold my breath. I'm just sitting here in the water. What's she going to do now? Well, she stuck her snout in between my arms and my legs

and forced me open. And then she threw herself on top of me and pushed me down to the bottom of the pool, which was 12 feet deep.

Right, which was very deep. Uh-huh. You almost died. Well, I looked her on my back thinking,

God, I hope she's not going to hold me down here until I run out of breath. But maybe she knew that you couldn't stay down long and then she let you out.

Of course. But she started beating up on me as I was getting out of the pool. And we had this fight. I mean, I slapped her.

Good. I'm the jaw. And she went away and soaked, and I went away and soaked. OK.

After a while, we got back together and made up. That's all I can describe. OK. So eventually, I mean, right before she left,

I got to cut to the chase here because we happened to be... I mean, we started late, though. So I don't know how we're doing on time. How much time do we have?

We have 30 minutes. Yeah, but we started late. OK. So, OK.

It's almost 11.30. Got it. So anyway, I know what time it is. I just didn't know what time we started.

So anyway, back to Malcolm. So let's... I mean, I'm sure you had lots of different, um, adventures with Dolly more.

But then there was the consummation. Yeah. That happened after the park had been sold to a real estate developer.

90% of the dolphins were shipped out to various shows. The only two were left were Dolly and a male dolphin named Jimbo, whom she was rather fond of. And they were in the same pen together,

which presented a problem for me. On the last day I went down there, the place was closed. There was nobody... There were a couple of workmen around,

but I literally, you know, dispatched them, made them go away. Can I sit here? And Dolly recognized there was a problem after she threw

herself in front of Jimbo to save me from getting rammed. Oh, wow. She went over... Dolphins won't jump over a fence.

They won't do that. But Dolly went to a place where the boards were separated by a space. She exhaled, which collapsed her lungs,

and she swam through that narrow space, maybe an inch on either side, and the male dolphin wouldn't follow her. So we got some privacy.

Oh. We spent about half an hour... She had it worked out. Just playing.

Dolphins can stimulate you with their sonar. Wow. It really had an idea. Yes, it's called a buzz job.

If you're ever talking to a dolphin trader, mention that and see what they... Buzz job? Like your job?

Yes, a buzz job. Like a hand job? A buzz job. Okay.

Oh, buzz job. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah.

I... It wasn't working belly to belly, which is the way the dolphins made. I couldn't swim under her

because water would go up my nose. So I compromised, and we made love with her horizontal in the water and me vertical.

And coming into her from... She seemed to prefer the left side for some reason. And I can honestly tell you, it was the most amazing act of my life.

Wow. I was so close to that dolphin, I felt like we had mind melted. You had what?

Yeah, you had... Mind melted. Our minds were no longer separate. Oh, your minds melted together, you're saying.

Yeah. Okay, okay. It emerged. Like Spock on Star Trek.

Okay, but you were one. Which is what we feel when we have sex with someone we love. Yeah.

Or even just really good sex, even if you don't love the person. Sometimes you do feel that oneness when you both have a simultaneous orgasm,

which I think you think you might have had with Dolly. You had an orgasm, and you think that maybe she did too. Because she, after you separated...

I'm sure of it. You're sure of it. I'm sure of it. She vocalized.

A lot of men aren't sure when women have orgasms, so I don't know. They just play it off and pretend like they do. What do women want?

I mean, that's always a question. I knew I was getting near climax, and I saw her breathe, and she took us both about six feet underwater.

And we climaxed there, and I heard her groan three times in a rising pitch. Like, oh.

I thought it was more like, ee, ee, ee. Oh, yeah. No? It was a groan, not a whistle.

Not a squeak. No. Okay. Just by floaty toy that squeaks.

And I presume that she was doing that so that the male dolphin and the other pen could hear her. She... I don't know what her reasons were.

Yeah, you have reasons. You feel she had an orgasm. So let me just stop for a moment and give another trigger warning.

I'm going to give another trigger warning for those who have just tuned in and also say that if you want to call us and talk, our number is

1-866-289-7068 or 626-461-5950. And you could talk about any kind of taboo sex you want to talk about.

We are talking about dolphin sex. And why? You might want to know why.

And I understand that because it's very controversial. But it is a fascinating aspect of sexuality that is rarely explored in public discourse.

And yet it has been going on since the beginning of humanity. Humans are animals. And religion does try to deny that.

They try to say we're somewhere between animals and angels that we're not really animals. But we are.

And so does capitalism. Try to deny our animal nature. And I'm a bit of a socialist, so I have to throw capitalism in there.

But right now, seriously, we do need socialism, but we also need to reassess our relationship

with the natural world, with the earth, and with our fellow animals. And mostly that does not involve sex,

and that's good. But you know, I believe we need an exploration, an expanded exploration

of human-animal connections. And again, human non-human animal. Because humans are animals.

But this does include sexual connections. And most certified sex therapists, most marine biologists, most people

will not discuss this subject. And I know that Malcolm has had some trouble with some talk show hosts that he's encountered.

And I understand that. And I'm not judging them. I am a little different. And I don't judge him.

It sounds like he cares. I don't know... I don't agree with everything. I certainly don't agree with everything in his video.

He says something in his video about now that interracial sex is considered okay, maybe human... non-human animal sex will be okay.

I don't agree with that. Interracial sex is still between humans. And it just doesn't involve animals.

So I stand on the total opposite side of the room. I don't know if we're going to discuss that. But before we do,

if we do... Let me just make a point if I would. Oh, okay. Quickly. Okay.

In this country, we eat millions of animals a day. I'm sure that those animals will be much happier

if I were having sex with them. Than being eaten. Yeah, I agree with that. I certainly agree with that.

I agree that slaughtering and eating animals to me, I mean, I'm not a vegetarian.

So I do eat a lot of vegetables and I try to be more vegan. I'm trying to wean myself from meat. Thanks to Anna,

who does a lot of good. Anna is also becoming vegan. We're becoming vegan and we really need to

because it's wrong to eat animals and also it's destroying the earth. It's not just that you're eating the particular animal.

It's that it takes so much food to feed that animal that they have to grow and that's why the Amazon rainforest

is being decimated because Bolsonaro wants to put gigantic corporate farms out there that basically create animal feed,

grow animal feed. And farming is the root of all evil. I've said that many times. But we need to have small farms,

not these big farms. And yeah, of course, it's interesting that we think it's just fine,

great to slaughter and eat all kinds of animals. But a little bit of sexual connection that is so loving.

I mean, I'm not saying everybody should have sex with animals. I'm not saying anybody should have sex with animals.

No. But I don't think it's as wrong what Malcolm has done. And I don't even think it's wrong at all.

And in fact, now I want to talk about a little bit, just for a little bit. This could take a whole show,

but Malcolm's background because it involves, you know, his childhood with a... I'm a fan of the late Dr. Wilhelm Reich,

but not everything. I like what he said about sexual liberation. Obviously, I'm for sexual liberation. I like what he said about the importance

of orgasm. I'm for orgasms. But I don't like everything he said or did. I mean, I don't like everything any human

or animal says or does. So, and I never understood one of his inventions, the Orgone Box.

And Malcolm's story makes me feel even worse about this Orgone Box than I did. And I didn't know much about it,

and I still don't. But apparently, at the age of five, you were in an Orgone Box at the hands of Dr. Albert Duvall,

who was kind of a student of Wilhelm Reich, although I think Wilhelm Reich was dead by then. No, he wasn't. He wasn't.

He would be dead by November 27, I think. Okay, I hope he didn't molest you. Did he abuse you himself? What?

Reich, did Wilhelm Reich abuse you himself? No, I never met Reich. Okay. Not that that excuses what happened,

but Reich wasn't the one that did it, and I'm grateful for that. But I feel terrible that this Dr. Albert Duvall, who was a student of Reich,

he abused you and molested you when you were five years old. From my earliest memories, go back to about five.

And he did it from five until about seven, I think. Which is when he packed up and left for LA, where he became a court-appointed psychiatrist and treated people like Lorna Luft

and Joey Luft, Judy Garland's children. And Judy said in her autobiography, Me and My Shadows, that if her parents had known what Duvall did to her brother,

they wouldn't have had him killed. The man falated me. And I also believe, because I have my recovered memories of that,

and I also believe he sodomized me, although I don't know for sure if he used his finger, his penis, or a glass tube stuffed with steel wool

as part of the Reichian's... Well, anyway, we don't know exactly what he did, and we don't have pictures. Kind of thank God and goddess.

But we do know he abused you. I also looked up Dr. Albert Duvall, who I didn't know a lot about, and apparently there are other reports

of him abusing children. My brother is a practicing ergonomist, not from Duvall's school, fortunately. I would hope not.

Your brother. My brother, yes. My brother met a psychotherapist who had been asked to take over Duvall's patients

when he died, and they began reporting to her all of these cases of what was clearly psychiatric abuse.

Now, as children, we could never... I've talked to other people who were pediatric patients of his. We never get our parents to listen to us.

You know why? Our parents were in treatment with him, too. Oh, and he didn't do that to them? Sounds heavily manipulative.

Not as blatantly, no. He was very controlling, very manipulating. I think he was a Svendali of a man. He was horrible.

He was horrible. I can't give you a picture of how grim this man was. Well, you've given us one.

Basically, it was shortly after that that you kind of developed a, let's say, romantic affection for the family dog,

or you saw a dog movie. I saw Saggy Dawn. Right. I loved Disney.

No black and white with Fred McCarty. And when this kid is dancing with a girl, this magic spell goes into effect, and he begins changing into a dog

while he's dancing, and he's not aware of it. So he's growing fur and stuff, and, yeah, that really turned on by that.

He changes into a dog, and your brand's still broken. And when you say turned on, you were pretty young,

so did you get a little erection as a little boy? Yeah, I had a crush on him five years ago. I had a sexual off.

Right, you wouldn't ejaculate. Anyway, again, trigger-warning everybody. So if this upsets you

to hear about this kind of zoophilia, or any kind, then change the channel, please. But we're talking,

we're not recommending, this is a real thing that happens to people, and it also may be able to shed light in these desperate times that we're in

when we need to reconnect with the Earth and figure out what our relationship is to the Earth and to other animals. So, okay, so you attempted sex

with other animals, with the dog, it didn't work out, and then you met Dolly,

and it did work out. And you had this love connection, you could say, with no credit to Chuck Woolery,

who is too much of a trumper for me. But I did do the love connection, actually, and it's now floating around on YouTube. Not because of me,

I'm kind of embarrassed by it, because they made me say bad things about the guy that I went on a date with, and I didn't think such bad things about him.

Anyway, you had a love connection with Dolly, and sadly, you were separated. I mean, I say it's sad, again, not judging,

but just hearing about what happened. Dolphins or cattle, okay? They're bought and sold. They're a commodity.

They shouldn't be. They are the non-human people of the sea. I want to emphasize the fact, you are dealing with a dog.

You are dealing with a creature that has total control of the situation, and you are more helpless than a baby. I was in Washington State

going to college. I had stayed there a little longer. I had taken a summer job at the college, and one morning, I think it was in June,

I woke up from a terrifying nightmare. My heart literally stopped. I couldn't breathe. And slowly, or rather,

suddenly it came back to me. I had been descending a flight of stone steps carved into a basement.

And when I got to the bottom, I saw this huge field of boxes. The boxes were lined with aluminum foil, and in every box there was a dead dolphin,

except for the one nearest to me. A dead one? A dead dolphin. This was his dream.

In your dream, I see. Okay. And then you discovered that Dolly had actually died. Yes.

I hate to cut to the chase. But we are... Very near that date. I can't determine the exact time she died.

You had a premonition about her, and maybe she sent you one of those transmissions or something. The fact is that the oceanarium where she was, which is the Gulf Fort Oceanarium in Gulf Fort, Mississippi,

has a big dome over it. Yeah. As dark, there were concrete steps that lead down. It doesn't sound like as much fun for her as Florida land.

No, she couldn't go out. She couldn't go out. She was in prison. She was in a prison, at least in Florida land,

even though she was a little abused with the hats and the controlling tricks. She didn't have to do those tricks. But she did have a lot of ocean to play in.

And here in the oceanarium, she had nothing. She just had water in doors. It's very sad. She was also sad because she was missing you, I guess.

I mean, I would imagine she'd be sad no matter what, like any animal is, to be imprisoned. I have mixed feelings about zoos, because I've met bonobos in zoos,

and I've learned a lot from zoos. But zoos are basically prisons to non-human animals. And so are these oceanariums, yeah. Even more so, because a dolphin's sonar doesn't work

with all those blank walls around it. The sonar doesn't work. Dolphins are voluntary breathers. They think about every breath they take,

and if a dolphin goes unconscious, it doesn't breathe. So it depends on other dolphins to get its heart started again or wake it up and get it breathing. Dolphins doesn't live by herself.

When she held her breath, she went down to the bottom of her tank. She never came up again. Her train discovered her out there the next morning. No signs of injury, no obvious rape marks on her,

nothing, no attack. She just died. She died, she killed herself. She was despondent.

She didn't have you, and she was in this prison. Terrible prison, the sonar wasn't working, nothing was good. So she just went going to dolphin heaven.

So I hope she's in dolphin heaven, even though I don't believe in that, but yeah. I don't believe in it either, but I had a hell of a problem with her coming back after death.

She's not wanting to be with me. Oh, visions of her, ghosts. Yeah, I can imagine. Every time she came back,

the emotional wounds that were healing would crack open and I'd start bleeding again. So finally, I had to ask her to leave, to leave me alone. Wow, and did she?

Describes that scene. Did she leave you alone? She has ever since. Well, if you're someone, you let them go.

So who knows if it's a ghost or just a dream, but you've done some good therapy on yourself, I guess. And you've been with women, I mean, you have a daughter, right? I do have a daughter, you know what's funny?

I've estimated that about 98% of my sex life has been... Is she your biological daughter? You're skating past her. She's my biological daughter.

So you had sex with a woman to have this daughter. Yes, my first wife. Okay. So you've had different wives.

Do they know about Dolly the Dolphin? Do they know about you? The kid designs the covers for my books. Oh, okay.

Those book covers are really good. I'd like to show them if possible. Okay, let's show the book covers. Yeah.

Well, I have one of the book covers. Well, one of the book covers. Just basically the Dolphin book. My books are available on Amazon.

I've written two other books, by the way, growing up in the Oregon box, which is about my youth. Right. And a UFO novel, Miltior, and Interstellar Affair,

which is kind of funny, actually. But we're here to talk about Dolphins right now. Although the background, it's interesting to know about your abuse.

And I would say it certainly was part of the reason, maybe not the whole reason, that you are a zoophile

and that you fell for Dolly. And you're obviously someone who's had sex with women. You can get a heart on.

I guess you didn't take Viagra, because they didn't have it in those days. So you can have sex with women. But Dolly really turned you on

and captured your heart in a way that, I guess, no human woman could. What's like this?

We were both aware while we were making love while I was inside her that we were crossing

a line between our species. She was aware, I was aware we didn't care. We were lovers.

I don't know if I'd speak for a non-human animal myself, but I respect that you felt that. What was that, Max?

A small issue of consent. I don't want the guy to think he's alone in the world. Farmers have sex with pigs.

Some people are touched by the death of their dog. They've never had sex, but it traumatizes

the rest of their fucking life. Yeah, yeah. By the way, yeah, absolutely. People fall in love with their dog.

Shepherds have been doing stuff like that for actually centuries. I mean, you didn't have sex

with your poodle, Robert, but you always say you loved him. But I loved him, and I'm still heartbroken

that I've lost this friend. Humans are animals, and we can develop close relationships with animals. They give us a window

into the world that all of our plastic and all of our oil cuts us off from.

And we'll eventually destroy if we don't do a big turnaround. So these animals,

they put us in touch. Now, you in your case had sex. Most people don't, but our connections with animals

are very powerful. Now, by the way, I want to say real quick, Malcolm isn't the only one to have sex with a dolphin.

And in the 1960s, actually, before you, there was a woman named Margaret Lovett. Love it.

Part of a NASA-funded project involving the study of communication with dolphins that was supervised by more famous people,

Gregory Bateson, and neuropsychologist John Lilly. And she essentially lived with a dolphin named Peter.

This one is named Peter. Adolescent boy dolphin named Peter. And there were other dolphins there. But Peter was

the one that she was focused on and trying to teach to talk. And meanwhile, he got extremely aroused. Now, see, this is a floaty dolphin,

so it doesn't have a penis. And that's probably a good thing. But, you know, let's just say Margaret

relieved Peter not with his fin, but with the dolphin penises are pretty substantial.

I have a photo here if we want to show. And that is, she masturbated him occasionally. And she makes a big point and I respect her

of saying that she was not sexually aroused for this experience, though she felt that the activity was very sensual

and helped her to get to know Peter, which she wanted to do as part of her study. And eventually the experiments ended.

Peter was shipped off to an aquarium. No, he wasn't. Well, okay.

Lily set up a new he moved his lab from the Virgin Islands to Miami. He bought a bank vault that he filled

with water and used as a pool. Dolphins might have been there. Peter, again, committed suicide. He committed suicide.

So maybe it wasn't an aquarium, but it was another place where she wasn't and where Peter missed her.

And he also stopped breathing. And you could say if you want, you could say he died of a broken heart.

And I mean she did a BBC documentary about this a few years ago. And of course, the headlines

were very salacious. Not that I'm sure a lot of people think this show is salacious. I'm sure people do. But they would say, woman reveals sex

with Dolphin. The woman who lived in sin with a Dolphin. The Dolphin who loved me. This woman jerked off a Dolphin

and liked it. Scientist says relationship with Dolphin was sensuous. I had sex with a Dolphin even though she never actually said that.

Now, other researchers have masturbated other animals. And it's very controversial. They don't usually

talk about it, but sometimes they do. Sometimes it's even part of the experiment. Monkeys, dogs, rats.

And it was controversial in the 60's or 70's, but it was done. And these

human hands-on non-human animal techniques have a far more common application

than in research. Does anybody in the class know when do humans masturbate animals and it's all considered okay?

Non-human animals. I talked to you about it this morning. Oh, so I'm cheating. Cows, do cows count?

Cows, exactly. Cows and bulls and horses, they do it to breed the animals.

They do it all the time. Farmers and ranchers do this masturbating. Now, of course they don't get turned on

although maybe they do. But they turn the animal on and nobody complains about that. Everybody says, hey, that's cool

because, you know, we want to eat hamburgers, I guess. But, you know... I just think it's kind of funny

that these cases don't make headlines but allowing a dolphin to hump your foot until he

ejaculates, that does. And I mean, you know, people want to eat. We're hungry. So we think it's okay

for breeding. But I don't know. I think the researchers are exploring recreational sexual pleasure in

non-human animals. And apparently a lot of them love it. But most humans don't want to know about it. Trigger warning again, you don't have to

know about it. Or hear about any other human involved in it. Yeah. Humans are funny.

And hypocritical, very hypocritical about sexual pleasure as opposed to everything else.

So, that's one reason we're exploring this today, tonight is because

of this inherent hypocrisy of humans in jacking off all these animals so that they can make

more animals and we can eat hamburgers. Or chicken. They not only jack off the male animals, they virtually rape the female animals.

Yes. Because they're either artificially inseminating them or they hot-tie them and breathe them to a stallion.

In the case of horses. Sounds traumatic. Don't have anything approaching an animal in sexual pleasure.

No, they're not concerned about the animal's pleasure. They're just doing the sex for procreation. And one thing we're learning

in this day and age, in these decades, is humans are not the only animals that have sex for pleasure.

And humans are not the only animals that can be raped and feel pain. And of course, even worse than rape

is being killed. So, there. And eating. Oh, and then they eat.

Although once you're dead, I don't know if you care whether you're eating or not. But it's kind of, I don't know if it's like cannibalism. Obviously cannibalism is about eating

other humans. And we rightly feel that that's wrong. But, hey, you know,

we also feel it's wrong when certain cultures eat dogs. Because we in our culture love dogs. We also feel it's wrong when people eat

dolphins. But why is it okay to eat, you know, tuna? To eat cows?

Where are we supposed to draw the line? I don't know. But I think it's worth discussing. I'm not saying I know exactly where to draw the line.

And I'm no Paragon. Because I love those little shrimp. And even if you draw a line, that doesn't really change much.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you can make things illegal. I don't believe, for example, that somebody a while ago

before there was all this media was having sex with a dolphin. Or they're a dog, or they're a pig. I mean, real sex.

I mean, while almost 300 dolphins have died in the Gulf of Mexico waters due to the BP oil spill

just this year. And chemicals in the water, pollutants, other environmental catastrophes. This is dolphin abuse.

It's murder. Record numbers of mutilated dolphins are washing up on the French coast. Fishermen trying to catch other fish.

But mutilating the dolphins and maybe eating, maybe we're eating dolphins while they're trying to catch other fish. Some dolphins wind up in there.

Or they free them and they're mutilated. And they wash up on the shore because it's just

this is what's really awful. I mean, what Malcolm has done is unusual and certainly not for everybody

and not for most people and nothing I recommend. But to me, the mutilated dolphins are much, much, much, much.

How many muches can I say? Much worse. And let me just spank Trump while we're talking.

Should I spank him with a dolphin? I don't care. If she wants it, go for it. You want to help me out

with spanking Trump? Because Trump called himself the chosen one and said that Jews who don't vote for Trump

are traders or not loyal. And I resent that

as a lawnsman. And also he's just letting his corporate

cronies just pollute everything. And it's true that David Koch

just died and I'm not mourning but I'm also not celebrating because he's a human being.

He's a creature of the earth. And also because his pollution will continue.

It is continuing with his sons and with Trump and with his nephew and just

it's just it's just dire. It's dire brothers and sisters. And somebody having sex with a dolphin

is controversial but it's not as dire as what this

president is doing to the earth to our lives, to our air and to our water.

Bam! Bam! Bam! I don't want to hurt the dolphin too much. Yeah, yeah. Sucked dolphins.

Oh, what happens to his son? I better do it again. He needs to have his thing inside. Okay, now

we're going to do it for real before we were really because he didn't have his he has to be

gagged so he can't speak and of course that is better for spanking. You can do one and I'll do the other.

This is what Stormy Daniels spanked him with the Forbes magazine that shows him and his family.

Yeah. Okay. Got the part of the show. By the way, my hair

was just done by Mark Brown.

That's hairstylist in Southern California. No offense to other hairstylists, of course, who we also love

but Mark is great. So, yeah, so back to Malcolm I had this to beat up Trump

and also let people know that you're not the only one that there's this Margaret Love

it and that in general dolphins are very, very sexual creatures like bonobos, they have a lot of sex

they have a lot of gay sex they have heterosexual sex they don't, they're non-monogamous they might fall in love

but then they could fall in love with somebody else. So, yeah, lots of different kinds of sex.

We talked about Zafar a little bit the French dolphin. Oh, yeah. Zafar, he was

and he got cut off from his dolphin pod. He got kicked out of his dolphin pod and so then he starts hanging out at the beach

in France and he tries to have sex with humans and the humans are like, no, no, what's wrong with you? Then he started getting really sexually frustrated

and started getting aggressive, you know and then they closed down the beach in France. And this was like a news story, like, I think

a year ago or something. Yeah. Poor Zafar. But, you know, I mean, I don't think I've won a dolphin

you know, kind of nosing up between my legs so I understand why they didn't want to do it but, yeah, okay. Dolphins are very sexual

and sometimes they push each other and people and I'm, you know,

they're not quite the bonobos. They're not as close to us as bonobos and they don't really make peace through pleasure

because they do kill the babies. Why do they kill the babies? Because females, when they have babies tend to

stop wanting to have sex and so the males will kill the babies like gorillas do in order to get the females

ovulating again and wanting sex and that's wrong but, you know, what can I say? Dolphins aren't personal

and neither are we. Anyway, back to Malcolm. What do you want to convey to people?

Let's give the ocean back to the dolphins. Let's try to get the plastic out of it if we can. Making so much noise

with our boats. Let's build quieter boats that don't pollute the seas with engine noise so the dolphins and whales can't hear each other

and let's respect them. Let's treat them like another race of people who we share this plan with because in almost every way

their brain size, their use of tools, their communications they don't have, you know,

this thing. Yeah. And otherwise there's so much like us

it's spooky. Yeah, it's scary. I've read about them having their own cultures and stuff and like

it's just insane, you know. Certain pods will do things other pods won't do. They have dolphin culture. They do.

And it's something for us to remember that there are other animals besides us that have cultures that we're destroying

and, you know, yeah, they're and even if you're against people having sex

with animals, which I understand, then just understand that animals deserve to live

and certainly, I guess, dolphins are endangered species and so I do all my dolphin fantasies with my floaty dolphins

because I don't do them with real dolphins because I might be abusive because I kind of, I'm rough with the dolphins but of course they would be big

and probably knock me out like they knocked out Malcolm's girlfriend. They didn't knock her out but they chased her out of the water.

Oh, okay. You know, when I lived in Guam, dolphins are a little smaller. Porpoises are smaller than dolphins.

Porpoises are very similar to dolphins. I'm still not totally sure I know all the different differences because they're very subtle

and I couldn't find out fast enough if dolphins can mate with porpoises but porpoises are smaller.

They can mate with anything in the sea and they can produce with some of them like the dolphin

false killer whale hybrid that was born in Hawaii. We talked about that at the aquarium in Hawaii

they call it a wallfin a dolphin that had a baby with a whale. A wallfin.

A wallfin. A whale and a dolphin. Yeah, a wallfin. Well, at least they had a porpoise.

Yeah, at least they had a porpoise. That's great, I like that. That's bad. So, let's see,

let's have some dolphin cookies. I made them. Sunshine made dolphin cookies. Yeah.

Does anybody want dolphin cookies in the crew? Do you want a dolphin cookie? Okay, I'll have to eat one because I made it.

That's a really good one, I have to say. Can you fax one of those to me? Anybody like a dolphin cookie? Anna, Miguel,

anyone want a dolphin cookie? Anybody want to eat a dolphin? Harry's going to have a dolphin cookie. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Anna, come up here and have a dolphin cookie. It's not a real dolphin, obviously. Although these dolphins It looks delicious, man.

Oh, that's a sandwich. Show the dolphin sandwich. Come on back here. Oh, I want one of those too, the orange one.

Yeah. Yeah, there's only. These are very delicate. And they're made by Sunshine.

And, yeah, I'm sorry Malcolm isn't able to eat them. But they're in the studio. You'll have to come visit us sometime.

I have a pool too where I play with my dolphin floaties. Now, you know, I can't judge Malcolm.

What do I know? No matter what I think, it doesn't matter. Oh, yeah. It goes on. Yeah, so

what are you going to do? The bruschetta is salty, yeah. It's kind of salty bruschetta. Now I'm chewing.

It's your chance to talk, Malcolm. Oh, yeah. Is there anything else you want to say? She's eating. Well,

the book is titled, I will mention again, what goddess recollections of a dolphin lover is available

on Amazon. There is also an e-book version which is available on Smashwords.

I couldn't get the e-book on Amazon for some reason. They disavowed

the affiliate there. So take me to publish it in the print book, but I can't do it in the e-book, so the e-book's on Smashwords.

And if you want to read the complete story, it's all right there. It's all right there. And there's also a YouTube video,

so you can look up on YouTube. And we have a Speakeasy Star page for you that links to all of it. Thank you. Yes, we do.

And it's going to be there in perpetuity. Great. Yes. And I'm putting it in right now. And I'm putting it in right now.

I'm hoping for it. Anyway. Anyway, Max, this is almost as crazy as stuff that

was in Love Magazine and Finger Magazine and all that. Yeah, well, to me, that's why I said it's very hard for me to judge them because

people do weird things. They do wonderful things. Yeah. But everybody does something that makes them or gives them pleasure.

And as long as you do it with love and consent. Yeah. I mean, if you're out, you know,

if you're out on the mountain like a shepherd and it's fucking cold and it's just you and the goat or you and the sheep.

Hey. But do some foreplay with it. Maybe organize something. I don't know. Maybe. Make sure it's consensual.

But they've been doing that for centuries. It's hard to make sure of that. I have to say that though. And I believe that. Well, in his case

he sits. Sounded. Well, because he's so sincere sounding. And you seem very sincere.

Yeah. And we don't know. We weren't there in the water. And also what you said about

if the dolphin doesn't want to do it, she can easily swim away. Yeah. Dolphins are much better swimmers than

Olympic swimmers. So much better swimmers than Navy Seals. The Navy Seals

can't even the dolphin just rips out their respirator, rips their fins off, rips their mask off and pushes them to the surface.

Even though they're mammals like us. It's what's sort of weird about dolphins. There's many things. Also,

even the females have this spiral shaped vagina which is very interesting that

means that they can sometimes take a male that has sex with them that they can almost do with that Oklahoma senator said, which is wrong about

human females can't do this. But they can kind of create their own birth control by angling themselves

a certain way. And yes, dolphins have sex in many different positions. Not just, you know,

I don't know, doggy style. In fact, I don't think they do it in doggy style. I think

what we did was they have gay sex. Dolphins are gay and that's okay. Well, I don't know

if I should say this. Way back when if you saw in Paris, if you saw someone with a poodle

you kind of went, aha. Oh, so you assumed they were going to look pussies.

Oh, really? They love it. There's nothing. Why not?

You know why they call them lap dogs. Right, exactly. I never heard of that. Oh, come on, lots of dogs.

I've heard lap dogs, yeah, but I've never heard of them. Dogs are always going between your legs. We just have to fight them off. They're helping your legs.

You know, they hump your legs, they go between your legs, they try to do things. That's all a dog can never do.

The dog can never modify that behavior and they're usually not helping you for sexual reasons. They're helping you for dominance.

They pump a male dog every night after dinner. Well, see, I call that sexual because if you're rubbing your genitalia when you say sexual reasons

I think you're saying they're not doing it to procreate, which is true. But they are doing it for sexual reasons. Just like when we have sex sometimes

we do it to dominate or we do it for other non procreational reasons. So animals are similar in that way.

They have sex for different reasons. And that's one reason that we're talking about them. And I think we've pretty much run out of time.

But I thank you so much, Malcolm, for joining us and talking about this difficult subject. Well, I thank you for having me on.

It's been a pleasure to talk to you. You didn't make fun of me. I presume there will be no dedicated denial of service

attack on my website. No, no, no. We're very open minded. But again, trigger warning

if you're just tuning in and you're going to tune into the beginning. If zoophilia really bothers you and I don't judge you for being bothered

but don't watch. And if you're interested if you fantasize watch.

And if you want to talk about it if it's something that you've done or something that you fantasize about doing

and you want to talk about it you can't talk to most therapists about it. You certainly can't talk to most certified sex therapists

about it. So you can talk to me. And I won't do weird things like happened

with Malcolm in the Orgone box. If you want to become a therapist call us and we'll certify you.

Oh yeah, we should certify people. Right. People that have been working for 10 years but in the meantime

we are talking to clients about all kinds of things many, many taboo things. And certainly whatever is in your mind

is okay to talk about. Maybe not okay to do I'm not going to say everything you think about is okay to do.

I have judgment about a lot of things but in terms of talking have at it and give us a call

our telephone sex therapy number to talk to me your mother confessor or our therapist without borders and Sunshine is now one of our therapists.

She's just joined the therapy staff. She's kind of a virgin to that. But she's done other things

so I don't feel I'm breaking an a virgin. She's been a peep show artist. So now

you can call us at 2-1-3-2-9-1-9-4-9-7 That's 2-1-3-2-9-1-9-4-9-7 We did get some other calls

but they were from people who want to talk about other kinds of sex and we were so focused on talking with Malcolm

that we stuck to it. Dolphin sex is interesting but bonobo sex is even more interesting.

Not humans having sex with bonobos my book is not about that at all and I have never had sex with a bonobo although I did kiss Lana

through the wall through a glass wall we had a kiss and it was very powerful it was what I call a profound

interspecies experience and I think I did have sex with Max later that night. So there was some level of opening

and turn on to it. And this is Max's cover, you made this cover. No, no, I'm talking about the photo. Oh, the photo is from that day.

This is Lana and Lana and I played games and then she kissed me and I kissed your back

and it was beautiful. you know I'm I guess I'm kind of

I'm learning I'm always learning about this subject and always try to help people to deal with it. So meanwhile

bonobos make peace through pleasure and we really need that we really need to empower the females

make sure the males are happy and stop the wars and stop the pollution make like bonobos

not baboons make love not war make love to someone

you love tonight even if that's someone is you I love you I love you

I love you I love you for more information call us at 213-291-9497

that's 213-291-9497 anytime you need to talk.